News on China's scientific and technological development.

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese OEMs often make replacement parts for many scientific instruments. There is huge money to be made in China for OEM replacement of scientific instruments components.

Chinese companies do make electron microscopes, gas chromatographs, MRI machines, supercomputers, etc. It is just that Russians used to think only western instruments were good, partially due to racism. Indeed many peoples don't even trust Japanese scientific instrument manufacturers like Shimadzu, much less Chinese.
Pride and arrogance would prevent Alexander Kuleshov from seeking Chinese alternatives.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
I still see Chinese labs using Western instruments. Hate to see sanctions at the most critical time.
There was a preference by Chinese companies to use foreign technology and specially American technology rather than local, because a money first, develop later mentality. That illusion was shattered by the weaponization of the technological supply chain on part of the Americans.
Chinese labs used or some still have same the elitist mentality, foreign is better than local, publish now, develop later, until institute after institute got hit by sanctions. Imagine spending months or years working in a project and not been able to complete it because some moronic politician. But looks like the mentality is somehow changing.


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An EDA tool for e-beam lithography (EBL) developed at Hunan University (HNU)

View attachment 85770

The EBL-oriented EDA software tools are indispensable to design and manufacture EUV/DUV masks or sub-10 nm prototype devices. Some international treaties (e.g., 3.D.1-3 of Wassenaar Agreement [1]) and national laws (e.g., 3D003 of U.S. export control laws [2]) impose controls on exporting EBL-oriented EDA software tools to certain countries like China, Russian, etc.

We believe that EBL technologies should be used as friendly tools to improve lives of people from all countries without discrimination, rather than hostile weapons to deter the development of any country. Therefore, we are trying to develop these EBL EDA tools from scratch by ourselves. We license HNU-EBL EDA software, free of charge, to anybody from anywhere. To obtain a license, please click “license” and “contact us” on the top.

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If that is not a giant middle finger, i don't know what else it is.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
There was a preference by Chinese companies to use foreign technology and specially American technology rather than local, because a money first, develop later mentality. That illusion was shattered by the weaponization of the technological supply chain on part of the Americans.
Chinese labs used or some still have same the elitist mentality, foreign is better than local, publish now, develop later, until institute after institute got hit by sanctions. Imagine spending months or years working in a project and not been able to complete it because some moronic politician. But looks like the mentality is somehow changing.
There is also this "
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" mindset among some decision makers.
 

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
I still see Chinese labs using Western instruments. Hate to see sanctions at the most critical time.
China should always use the best instruments they can get be it foreign or local. Limiting to use only local instruments is limiting one's horizon to advancements. Foreign competitions is the catalyst to improve local OEMs.

Chinese products or services for international markets that required Western certifications would sometime be more practical to use pre-approved foreign instruments for marketing purposes. So Chinese labs using Western instruments can be a good thing.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Chinese OEMs often make replacement parts for many scientific instruments. There is huge money to be made in China for OEM replacement of scientific instruments components.

Chinese companies do make electron microscopes, gas chromatographs, MRI machines, supercomputers, etc. It is just that Russians used to think only western instruments were good, partially due to racism. Indeed many peoples don't even trust Japanese scientific instrument manufacturers like Shimadzu, much less Chinese.
There is a lot of blind European pride on part of the Russians, Just look the military drones they should been collaborated with the Chinese years ago in developing drone technology, the Chinese have become really good at drone technology, that would have make ton of difference in their operations in Ukraine. They also should have collaborated more deeply with CETC in developing their semiconductor military industry to make sure that their military will have access to quality chips but looks like they where blinded by pride.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
China should always use the best instruments they can get be it foreign or local. Limiting to use only local instruments is limiting one's horizon to advancements. Foreign competitions is the catalyst to improve local OEMs.

Chinese products or services for international markets that required Western certifications would sometime be more practical to use pre-approved foreign instruments for marketing purposes. So Chinese labs using Western instruments can be a good thing.
Yes, that's true, but becoming dependent on a instrument that may not be there when you need it most isn't very smart. What they may need is a risk rating system, maybe instruments from Germany will be at the bottom of the list with local instruments and U.S. made instruments will be in the current situation at the top of the list as the most risky to buy.
In my opinion the risk factor for buying will be.
Local made- safest to buy.
European made
Korean made
Japanese made
.
American made- riskiest to buy.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, that's true, but becoming dependent on a instrument that may not be there when you need it most isn't very smart. What they may need is a risk rating system, maybe instruments from Germany will be at the bottom of the list with local instruments and U.S. made instruments will be in the current situation at the top of the list as the most risky to buy.
In my opinion the risk factor for buying will be.
Local made- safest to buy.
European made
Korean made
Japanese made
.
American made- riskiest to buy.
I think Japanese made is very safe to buy, much safer than European, on par with Korean.

The key thing to note is that Japanese products are all about cost effectiveness and not pure quality, and most of their businesses are declining. They are isolated in Asia and they have a bit of freedom since they only have a bilateral treaty with the US. This means they have the motive to sell to China - they need it because of limited markets and China/Korea pressuring them from below - and the freedom to do so.

Europeans on the other hand command premium prices due to a perception of quality and have rising business opportunities due to EU. They are extremely closely tied to the US due to NATO and EU. They neither have the motivation nor the freedom to sell.

See: ASML vs. TEL

Korean companies don't seem to have a significant market share or tech advantage over Chinese ones. They're good at components supply but they don't have an integrator like TEL, AMAT, LAM, Naura, AMEC, etc.
 
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