News on China's scientific and technological development.

taxiya said:

The article leads me to read the article about China's exascale computer

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The conclusion:
Sunway exascle is 304s doing the simulation.
Google's "Quantum Supremacy" in 2019 is an hype. Simulation time in 200s, merely slightly better than a classic supercomputer.
Summit as the "TOP" dog is a sloth. Simulation time couple of days as self claimed.

It does not surprise me of today's US technology circle full of bragging, bloating and creating "new concept"without substance.

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The other thing is that a quantum computer only has advantage over a classical one for a narrow problem for a certain subset of problems, otherwise the classical computer has an advantage in readout, reliability, versatility, existing software and cost of operations.

taxiya said:

But neither Boeing nor Airbus are any more indigenous, just look at Boeing 787 as an example.

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The US has political control over most of those non-US suppliers (e.g. Australia).
China doesn't have political control over the US or the UK.

So the "indigenous" thing is a political matter not a technical competence matter. I think we should stick to the technical aspect as much as possible.

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Silly thinking. Did Huawei get sanctioned because of insufficient competence? Tech and politics are interrelated. The CCP understands this, clearly you do not.

mossen said:

The US has political control over most of those non-US suppliers (e.g. Australia).
China doesn't have political control over the US or the UK.

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That is true, but doesn't make Boeing aircraft indigenous, does it?

mossen said:

Silly thinking. Did Huawei get sanctioned because of insufficient competence? Tech and politics are interrelated. The CCP understands this, clearly you do not.

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Where did my post object the interrelationship? What is your point? Everybody understand the interrelationship, not only you. BTW, I myself have talked about the political implication of foreign suppliers on this project many times more than you. Go back and check for yourself.

My post was to tell you as a new member NOT to bring in politics into the forum if not absolutely necessary. That is if the subject is about market access or supply chain etc, then politics is acceptable and necessary.

But your post stood out with only one sentence and it's only purpose was to bring up the "indigenous" subject without any cause, nor was your post in response to any ongoing discussion that is political related.

If your post was about the impact of foreign components to the supply chain or the overall project execution etc, I would have been happy to engaged in a different reply.

The forum tolerates politics (which is good) BUT only if it is necessary. You need to spend a much longer time to understand what is that acceptable necessity.

taxiya said:

The article leads me to read the article about China's exascale computer

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The conclusion:
Sunway exascle is 304s doing the simulation.
Google's "Quantum Supremacy" in 2019 is an hype. Simulation time in 200s, merely slightly better than a classic supercomputer.
Summit as the "TOP" dog is a sloth. Simulation time couple of days as self claimed.

It does not surprise me of today's US technology circle full of bragging, bloating and creating "new concept"without substance.

Click to expand...

I'm somewhat confused as to how China was able to continue being competitive in supercomputing, given as that FT article itself writes:
"The local developers of the chips used in the two giant new systems — Tianjin Phytium Information Technology and Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center — were both on last year’s US sanctions list.
“I think it’s quite impressive that they were able to put in place a system based on their own technology over a very short period of time,” said Dongarra. He added that it was unclear whether the chips were manufactured in mainland China — which is still years behind in matching the world’s most advanced chip fabs — or in Taiwan."

Is there any likelihood at all that the semiconductors themselves were fabbed in the mainland, or is it virtually a given that they were fabbed in Taiwan?

If they were fabbed outside of the mainland, then I would that not present a rather obvious bottleneck that the US would seek to exploit in a rather obvious manner?

Bltizo said:

I'm somewhat confused as to how China was able to continue being competitive in supercomputing, given as that FT article itself writes:
"The local developers of the chips used in the two giant new systems — Tianjin Phytium Information Technology and Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center — were both on last year’s US sanctions list.
“I think it’s quite impressive that they were able to put in place a system based on their own technology over a very short period of time,” said Dongarra. He added that it was unclear whether the chips were manufactured in mainland China — which is still years behind in matching the world’s most advanced chip fabs — or in Taiwan."

Is there any likelihood at all that the semiconductors themselves were fabbed in the mainland, or is it virtually a given that they were fabbed in Taiwan?

If they were fabbed outside of the mainland, then I would that not present a rather obvious bottleneck that the US would seek to exploit in a rather obvious manner?

Click to expand...

If I'm not wrong supercomputer chips don't use the latest nodes. But no idea whether SMIC has the capacity to produce them

Bltizo said:

I'm somewhat confused as to how China was able to continue being competitive in supercomputing, given as that FT article itself writes:
"The local developers of the chips used in the two giant new systems — Tianjin Phytium Information Technology and Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center — were both on last year’s US sanctions list.
“I think it’s quite impressive that they were able to put in place a system based on their own technology over a very short period of time,” said Dongarra. He added that it was unclear whether the chips were manufactured in mainland China — which is still years behind in matching the world’s most advanced chip fabs — or in Taiwan."

Is there any likelihood at all that the semiconductors themselves were fabbed in the mainland, or is it virtually a given that they were fabbed in Taiwan?

If they were fabbed outside of the mainland, then I would that not present a rather obvious bottleneck that the US would seek to exploit in a rather obvious manner?

Click to expand...

Maybe they used bigger less dense and more energy demanding cores?

Getting government contract could also be a way for SMIC to get some 28~7nm experience and test going without risking consumer clients.

Bltizo said:

I'm somewhat confused as to how China was able to continue being competitive in supercomputing, given as that FT article itself writes:
"The local developers of the chips used in the two giant new systems — Tianjin Phytium Information Technology and Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center — were both on last year’s US sanctions list.
“I think it’s quite impressive that they were able to put in place a system based on their own technology over a very short period of time,” said Dongarra. He added that it was unclear whether the chips were manufactured in mainland China — which is still years behind in matching the world’s most advanced chip fabs — or in Taiwan."

Is there any likelihood at all that the semiconductors themselves were fabbed in the mainland, or is it virtually a given that they were fabbed in Taiwan?

If they were fabbed outside of the mainland, then I would that not present a rather obvious bottleneck that the US would seek to exploit in a rather obvious manner?

Click to expand...

14 nanometer tech from SMIC

Bltizo said:

I'm somewhat confused as to how China was able to continue being competitive in supercomputing, given as that FT article itself writes:
"The local developers of the chips used in the two giant new systems — Tianjin Phytium Information Technology and Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center — were both on last year’s US sanctions list.
“I think it’s quite impressive that they were able to put in place a system based on their own technology over a very short period of time,” said Dongarra. He added that it was unclear whether the chips were manufactured in mainland China — which is still years behind in matching the world’s most advanced chip fabs — or in Taiwan."

Is there any likelihood at all that the semiconductors themselves were fabbed in the mainland, or is it virtually a given that they were fabbed in Taiwan?

If they were fabbed outside of the mainland, then I would that not present a rather obvious bottleneck that the US would seek to exploit in a rather obvious manner?

Click to expand...

Sunway Oceanlight uses 14nm chip made by SMIC. Here is the detailed calculation of how that is possible.


It may not be as green as the US machines, but it is much cheaper than US to build, not because it is China building it but 14nm tech is cheaper than denser chips.

I think 14nm is mature tech in SMIC's hand according to the semiconductor thread in this forum.

Canada banned Huawei