News on China's scientific and technological development.

ougoah said:

You were the one who said (and I paraphrase) that Japan has been culturally superior to Korea throughout history (guessing overall judgement) and promoted this statement with "Japan has poetry and literature and tea culture".

So naturally I simply responded by raising the fact that pretty much all human civilisations with language had poetry and literature. So much of Japan's come directly from China. For starters, their entire language or at least the foundations of it. To the point that a non Japanese speaking Chinese person can go to Japan and understand and piece together meaning for 50% of the written language.

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I don't disagree with your second paragraph. Off the top of my head, 50 to 60 percent of Korean vocab is Sinitic in origin; 30-40% for Japanese.

Anyway no more emotional rhetoric. I'm done.

*To the point that a non Japanese speaking Chinese person can go to Japan and understand and piece together meaning for 50% of the written language.
- I would say more like 30%. The hiragana and katakana covers a lot of meaning that kanji alone wouldn't cover. The kanji alone has also diverged from modern Chinese meanings.

Crang said:

I don't disagree with your second paragraph. Off the top of my head, 50 to 60 percent of Korean vocab is Sinitic in origin; 30-40% for Japanese.

Anyway no more emotional rhetoric. I'm done.

*To the point that a non Japanese speaking Chinese person can go to Japan and understand and piece together meaning for 50% of the written language.
- I would say more like 30%. The hiragana and katakana covers a lot of meaning that kanji alone wouldn't cover. The kanji alone has also diverged from modern Chinese meanings.

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Sorry I meant 50% of the Kanji. Not including Hiragana and Katakana since those would be 0% familiarity.

ougoah said:

I'm fairly certain there are plenty of Spanish, Chinese, Italian, Indian, UK, Russian etc suppliers to civilian aerospace of just Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, and Bombardier (countries not USA, France, Brazil, and Canada is the point).

Japan isn't unique in supplying civilian aviation. So many suppliers in various countries have been doing this for the main duopoly for years if not decades.

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Japan has very unique position in Civilian aerospace Tier-1 supply chain. Its inside the engines and composite structures.
latest Aeroflot Airbus A350 use Panasonic flight entertainment system. Again this aviation grade reliability.

ougoah said:

Desert testing of cars is universally standard practice. Even 1980s Chinese cars did desert testing. Nowadays many have giant autoclaves and testing facilities that can simulate conditions far better than deserts, poles, and dust storms etc.

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you are confusing lower income consumers tastes with demanding situations experianced by those who can afford to flog the cars in military and non military situation. look around do Arab princess use Korean cars when they are in desert retreat?
Koreans messed up UAE Nuclear reactor construction. and that is very recent not some 20 to 30 years ago. they have to give inducements to others.
Koreans batteries made in Korea also blowing up

ougoah said:

Samsung and Hyundai are South Korea's two crown jewels like TSMC is for Taiwan or Sumitomo for Japan, Huawei, CATL, BYD, SMIC, SMEE etc are for China and so on. Koreans paying to keep those relationships is a weird thing to say. Those research centres are a source of "biodiversity" so to speak. It creates resilience and can improve Samsung.

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To keep Samsung and Hyundai competitive Koreans have to built foreign ship yards, battery plants, engine plants etc even if it make no business sense. Japan has no such obligations.

ougoah said:

Japan keeping a domestic approach isn't necessarily only good. They clearly miss out on things. Microsoft had offices in China (might still do) and so on. They take advantage of the talent and people in a country. That's what some of these multinationals do. There are American engineers working for Dutch Philips corp inside the USA in facilities owned by Philips where profits go into the Netherlands and shareholders when they create some new product. The work and gain given by those American engineers working at Philips, contribute to Philips the company and Netherlands the country (to some degree). It isn't a bad thing to have foreign offices and using foreign talent. In fact it is downright stupid to refuse that option as some weird self imposed rule.

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All i am pointing out that despite all the help Koreans gets from outside they still cannot match Japanese quality and complexity in many fields. Japanese also make investments in US as US has biggest market but it does not change the fact that highest technology and management still comes from Japan. Korean took short cuts in R&D by taking foreign help but it does not help there country much as private debt on consumers is not less than Japan. Koreans simply are not paid enough to keep there standard of living.

pmc said:

Japan has very unique position in Civilian aerospace Tier-1 supply chain. Its inside the engines and composite structures.
latest Aeroflot Airbus A350 use Panasonic flight entertainment system. Again this aviation grade reliability.

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Oh it is a lot more than just that. Japan manufactures composite wings for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. They have what is basically the leading company in the manufacture of composite fiber, Toray, they also license produce a lot of US fighter engines. They manufactured the first fighter AESA radar and the first missile with an AESA radar. Also the first fighter with a large proportion of composites. They lacked their own native advanced fighter engines but they are working on that.

pmc said:

Koreans messed up UAE Nuclear reactor construction. and that is very recent not some 20 to 30 years ago. they have to give inducements to others.

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Any problems the Koreans had with their reactors in the UAE were minimal compared with the problems the French are having with their EPR in France and Finland, or the problems the US is having with their AP1000 at Vogtle. You are linking to an article where they are buying uranium fuel from Russia, well, you might not know this but most US reactor fuel comes from Russia as well. The US has closed down all its enrichment facilities. It imports nuclear fuel from Russia and Europe. It has had plans to build new enrichment facilities in the US for like two decades now but after a lot of money spent have nothing to show for it.

pmc said:

Koreans batteries made in Korea also blowing up

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Their batteries are also used in the Nissan Leaf and it doesn't explode as much. Lithium ion batteries are dangerous anyway. Lithium Iron Phosphate as used by BYD is much safer.

pmc said:

All i am pointing out that despite all the help Koreans gets from outside they still cannot match Japanese quality and complexity in many fields. Japanese also make investments in US as US has biggest market but it does not change the fact that highest technology and management still comes from Japan. Korean took short cuts in R&D by taking foreign help but it does not help there country much as private debt on consumers is not less than Japan. Koreans simply are not paid enough to keep there standard of living.

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South Korea has like half the population of Japan.

Really, watch this!

gelgoog said:

Any problems the Koreans had with their reactors in the UAE were minimal compared with the problems the French are having with their EPR in France and Finland, or the problems the US is having with their AP1000 at Vogtle. You are linking to an article where they are buying uranium fuel from Russia, well, you might not know this but most US reactor fuel comes from Russia as well. The US has closed down all its enrichment facilities. It imports nuclear fuel from Russia and Europe. It has had plans to build new enrichment facilities in the US for like two decades now but after a lot of money spent have nothing to show for it.

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Korean are building reactors based on US technology with 5 years late. (they paid $2b to Westinghouse and further Toshiba supply chain) in much easier construction environment of UAE unlike in Europe with new technology implementation by French.
TVEL are at there limit at this point. Its more like UAE showing its option before project start to Koreans.

gelgoog said:

Their batteries are also used in the Nissan Leaf and it doesn't explode as much. Lithium ion batteries are dangerous anyway. Lithium Iron Phosphate as used by BYD is much safer.

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Nissan leaf battery is older technology and Nissan itself denied as it is built in Japan.
Panasonic built with US workers have better quality despite record production in short period of time for Tesla in multiple sizes.

gelgoog said:

South Korea has like half the population of Japan.

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i am not referring to Total population. I am looking per capita private debt. if Koreans have better R&D skills and manufacturing production than its per capita income net of private debt will be much richer than Japan.

pmc said:

Korean are building reactors based on US technology with 5 years late. (they paid $2b to Westinghouse and further Toshiba supply chain) in much easier construction environment of UAE unlike in Europe with new technology implementation by French.

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TVEL are at there limit at this point. Its more like UAE showing its option before project start to Koreans.

Nissan leaf battery is older technology and Nissan itself denied as it is built in Japan.

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Panasonic built with US workers have better quality despite record production in short period of time for Tesla in multiple sizes.

i am not referring to Total population. I am looking per capita private debt. if Koreans have better R&D skills and manufacturing production than its per capita income net of private debt will be much richer than Japan.

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If Nissan Leaf batteries are from Japan, than very likely they are from panasonic.

pmc said:

Japan has very unique position in Civilian aerospace Tier-1 supply chain. Its inside the engines and composite structures.
latest Aeroflot Airbus A350 use Panasonic flight entertainment system. Again this aviation grade reliability.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

you are confusing lower income consumers tastes with demanding situations experianced by those who can afford to flog the cars in military and non military situation. look around do Arab princess use Korean cars when they are in desert retreat?
Koreans messed up UAE Nuclear reactor construction. and that is very recent not some 20 to 30 years ago. they have to give inducements to others.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Koreans batteries made in Korea also blowing up

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

To keep Samsung and Hyundai competitive Koreans have to built foreign ship yards, battery plants, engine plants etc even if it make no business sense. Japan has no such obligations.

All i am pointing out that despite all the help Koreans gets from outside they still cannot match Japanese quality and complexity in many fields. Japanese also make investments in US as US has biggest market but it does not change the fact that highest technology and management still comes from Japan. Korean took short cuts in R&D by taking foreign help but it does not help there country much as private debt on consumers is not less than Japan. Koreans simply are not paid enough to keep there standard of living.

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For economic and strategic reasons, China should double its shipbuilding capacity, so that korea's Samsung and hyundai shipbuilding can be suppressed. Korea has half the population of Guangdong province, and yet their shipbuilding capacity is nearly as large as that of China's.

ougoah said:

Japan may not depend on South Korea at all but South Korea barely depends on Japan. One example does not take away the clear trend of South Korea having displaced so much of Japan's previous core industries and exports. This trend will not remove Japan and that's not what I'm saying at all. It is simply South Korea managing to carve out a chunk of the pie and a big slice it is as well. They do well for a nation of their size. Something China should look to as motivator. China needs to continue working towards attaining a similar level of per cap productivity and living standards which lift up the performance of a lot more.

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What he meant is that Japan (& the US and Europe ) has depth something that South Korea Taiwan and China lack. Yes Samsung and TSMC are theeading fabs in the world but they are nothing without Western equipment and Japanese chemicals.
Replicate that in many industries and you'll see where their tech foundation comes from

Topazchen said:

What he meant is that Japan (& the US and Europe ) has depth something that South Korea Taiwan and China lack. Yes Samsung and TSMC are theeading fabs in the world but they are nothing without Western equipment and Japanese chemicals.
Replicate that in many industries and you'll see where their tech foundation comes from

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Then that's kind of like saying Apple is nothing without Korean display technologies and Tesla and Apple are nothing without Chinese battery technologies?

You said here that TSMC and Samsung are nothing without Japanese chemicals for fab processes... well exactly how much are they nothing?? Is it 2 weeks worth of supply chain reshuffling or 2 years of research and development to replace those Japanese chemicals? Or 2 hours and 2 days? This is quite an important detail before we make big claims like TSMC is nothing without xyz and Samsung is nothing without abc. Apple and some Japanese makers are also nothing without TSMC. Isn't that also accurate and fair to say? If TSMC is just a place where Japanese chemicals are used with American equipment, how come TSMC has been and is the leading foundry with no peers at the moment and the closest being Samsung? For example if there is 100 parts to this process, TSMC has the magic formula for 50 of it while various non Taiwanese suppliers have the remaining. American equipment is nothing without Taiwanese foundry tech. Japanese chemicals are also nothing without Samsung's tech.

Point is aren't Japanese tech industries often also somewhat to extremely reliant on foreign supply chains and the same goes with American ones. Chinese is arguably the most independent EXCEPT for foundries and even with foundries the Chinese can do everything themselves in-house now apart from anything that requires ASML's EUVL but can Dutch ASML produce even a 128nm logic chip? Nope but Chinese foundries can... many of them down to 28nm and they've been doing 14nm now. Is it sensible to say ASML is nothing without foundries using their equipment? The question is exactly how dependent they are and how significant the obstacle to replace supplier if required. I would imagine that Korea would get along handsomely well if Japanese chemical supply was instantly stopped. It would probably take the Koreans a few weeks or months to replace those Japanese suppliers. Who knows but I'm not the one saying they're nothing without Japan.