New Type98/99 MBT thread

[RedMercury]

Has 96s with Shtora been anything more than T&E platforms? I don't recall seeing Shtora on deployed 96s. The Merkava inspired turret variant was definately a T&E unit. Since I haven't seen anything more of it, I'm guessing it didn't go anywhere, maybe it lost out to the current 96G turret.

Indeed I also think the 96G is very good looking. It seems more "squat" than the 99, probably because of a larger turret to chassis size ratio.

 

[kickars]

Indeed I also think the 96G is very good looking. It seems more "squat" than the 99, probably because of a larger turret to chassis size ratio.

Well said. I also think the proportion of 96G looks much better than 99G. Because of it's smaller chassis compare to the 99G's, 96G has more western look. On the other hand, the bigger chassis makes the turret of 99G looks way too small. And the round "wheel" arches make it look more like an old Russian design than a modern western style design.

 

[crobato]

I actually like the Merkava style turret more. It seems to have less of a shot trap between the turret and the hull, and it looks to me it can possibly elevate and depress the gun with greater angle. Also it looks a bit more "mecha" to me. Note one tank not only has the Merkava style turret but also has Shtora.

 

[Aluka]

Well said. I also think the proportion of 96G looks much better than 99G. Because of it's smaller chassis compare to the 99G's, 96G has more western look. On the other hand, the bigger chassis makes the turret of 99G looks way too small. And the round "wheel" arches make it look more like an old Russian design than a modern western style design.

You are saying it as if western look is an advantage of some kind. Quite weird, i didn't expect to see something like this here.
About the photo - i think that usage of the system similar to Shtora was confirmed, and there are more 96 pictures with it, but this Merkava-looking turret front looks suspicious. I have a strong feeling that this photo was PS-edited.

 

[kickars]

You are saying it as if western look is an advantage of some kind. Quite weird, i didn't expect to see something like this here.

I think you got me wrong. I was just talking about the look, not nothing else. Coz, nowadays new tank designs seem to follow western (style) trend. So based on the exterior design style, I think 96G looks proportionally better than 99G. Who knows, 'fashion' changes all the time. Maybe in few years time people would prefer Russian style.

 

[Aluka]

There's no such thing as style when it comes to combat vehicle design. Nobody develops concepts for those tanks, nobody thinks how they would look when finished. All exteriors are defined by interiors. The look of wheels for example depends on purely technical choice between steel and aluminium alloy. The shape of the turret (compare T-90A to type96 or 99) is defined by designer's point of view on effective protection angles, and probably sandwich component types.

 

[kickars]

There's no such thing as style when it comes to combat vehicle design. Nobody develops concepts for those tanks, nobody thinks how they would look when finished. All exteriors are defined by interiors. The look of wheels for example depends on purely technical choice between steel and aluminium alloy. The shape of the turret (compare T-90A to type96 or 99) is defined by designer's point of view on effective protection angles, and probably sandwich component types.

So you are saying in tank design with the same interior packaging, the same exterior protection and the same choice of material, there won't be any room left for designers with different cultures to have different styles?

Personally, I don't think that's the case. Coz after all we are just humans, even twins cannot draw two pictures the same. So even with all the conditions you mentioned above, tank designers from China, Russia, West Europe and North America will not be able to come up with the exactly the same look in the end.

And from the very beginning, that's what I was trying to say. There should be little but enough room for Chinese tank designers to 'style' the 99G better. As for now 2007, western tank exterior style seems to be the way to go.

 

[King_Comm]

I think that the method of ammunition storage on western tanks has a lot less to do with crew protection than everyone thinks.

On Soviet style tanks, ammunitions are stored right below the turret, which many believe would lead to low crew survival rate if that area is hit, but that is the part of the tank that is least likely to get hit, and if that area is penetrated by sabot rounds or large HEAT, the heat, pressure and fragments will kill the crew regardless of whether there are any ammunitions there.

While storing rounds in back of the turret means that on hit in that area will force the tank out of combat, and that area is quite easy to get hit, so I have a feeling that western tanks have some of their rounds stored in the back of the turret to act as a counter weight to the barrel to ensure smoother and more accurate turret traverse.

 

[RedMercury]

Yes, a system similar to Shtora was described in an article about the 99 actually. Oddly, photos don't seem to show where such a system is located on the tank.

As for looking western, perhaps that's what it is, since many western tanks have "big" turrets. Who knows, it is just a cosmetic thing.

The other thing about crew survival: any penetration from a DU round is a death sentence for the crew. In a few years they'll die of lung cancer.

 

[Aluka]

Yes, a system similar to Shtora was described in an article about the 99 actually. Oddly, photos don't seem to show where such a system is located on the tank.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As for looking western, perhaps that's what it is, since many western tanks have "big" turrets. Who knows, it is just a cosmetic thing.

No, as i said, it is purely functional. Western/Chinese turrets have a "boxy" front since armor is positioned so that directly incoming shell's trajectory would be normal to the block, which gives moderate protection against normal hit, good protection against hits within 45deg angles and no protection on flanks. Russian design has armor blocks turned somewhat 45deg to the normal, giving good protection against normal hits and moderate in other directions.
Turret bustles on Chinese tanks are functional to, they simply needed space for electronic components.