New Type98/99 MBT thread

[kwaigonegin]

can this tank defeat tanks like M1A2 or Leopard 2A6 ??

.

Questions like that is pretty meaningless in modern tank battles. A better question to ask is can the Chinese tank rounds penetrate the armor of these tanks including composite, ERA, improved Chobham etc??

2nd is range. If you have a gun/projectile combo that matches or exceed the range of the opposing tanks and your rounds can penetrate his armor you're already way ahead of the game. Everything else is just supplementary after that. If not you'd probably lose.

Keep in mind also that a lot of the upgrades to Western tanks in the last decade has been made to fight better in urban environments against poorly armed combatants with RPGs, machinguns etc hiding in buildings or on rooftops. In an actual tank vs tank battle across plains and open battlefield those improvements will yield little result.

I don't see Chinese tanks being used to fight in urban landscapes like cities and villages anytime soon so those 'accessories' you see on later versions of the Abrams, Leopards, Merkavas etc are not as applicable to them.

 

[valapak]

Questions like that is pretty meaningless in modern tank battles. A better question to ask is can the Chinese tank rounds penetrate the armor of these tanks including composite, ERA, improved Chobham etc??

2nd is range. If you have a gun/projectile combo that matches or exceed the range of the opposing tanks and your rounds can penetrate his armor you're already way ahead of the game. Everything else is just supplementary after that. If not you'd probably lose.

Keep in mind also that a lot of the upgrades to Western tanks in the last decade has been made to fight better in urban environments against poorly armed combatants with RPGs, machinguns etc hiding in buildings or on rooftops. In an actual tank vs tank battle across plains and open battlefield those improvements will yield little result.

I don't see Chinese tanks being used to fight in urban landscapes like cities and villages anytime soon so those 'accessories' you see on later versions of the Abrams, Leopards, Merkavas etc are not as applicable to them.

i think the chinese 125mm ( can shoot normal rounds and laser guided ) can break through the frontal armour of western tanks. us army says their depleted uranium round can break thorugh every frontal armour of every tank in the world.

maybe the chinese copied the uranium round from the usa? i cant find mutch informations about the gun and its ammo

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The American armor piercing round is a Depleted Uranium Fin discarding Sabot round not a guided missile round.
the US Army sadly has not adopted a guided projectile round yet for the 120mm cannon. There have been some attempts but the budget cuts it out last second.
next the Abrams Tusk kit as it stands uses Reactive Armor kits which may offer some defense against conventional tank rounds. And Trophy is a very capable Active defense system that has been stated as being able to counter tank rounds. Its a question of time range and velocity. Finally the Abrams is undergoing a upgrade program right now with the end goal being a massively updated M1E3 Abrams tank, likely to include changes in protection and defense. The future is still the future and anything can happen. Still in combat against Russian 125mm guided missiles Abrams has stood well with only mission kill (disabled) not total kill.

 

[ludasmatyi]

1.3M, that's the only thing i can tell you guys here

 

[Blackstone]

i think there will may be a conflict with india at the border and india - china relations are not good i think, in kashmir based chinese troops maybe get active when a conflict between pakistan and india brouks out. and india has mutch more modern tanks ( 248 Arjuns, 1050 T90, 2400 T72 and over 200 namica tank hunters) 2020 600 T90 more and china maybe 1000 type 99 2500 type 96 and mutch more extremly aging tanks
but sure the indian air force and navy is very small and china has more modern fighter and bomber and the countrys in southeast asia havent a powerful military like china

China and India aren't traditional enemies, their lone war in 1962 was the exception that proved the rule, and neither side has much appetite for conflicts against the other. As for Kashmir, it's doubtful China would intervene (militarily) in future India-Pakistan conflicts, since it didn't do so in Indo-Pakistani wars of 1947, 1965, 1971, and 1999. From China's perspective, the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze, because intervening for or against either side would open Pandora's box for decades of economic and geopolitical problems.

 

[vesicles]

China and India aren't traditional enemies, their lone war in 1962 was the exception that proved the rule, and neither side has much appetite for conflicts against the other. As for Kashmir, it's doubtful China would intervene (militarily) in future India-Pakistan conflicts, since it didn't do so in Indo-Pakistani wars of 1947, 1965, 1971, and 1999. From China's perspective, the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze, because intervening for or against either side would open Pandora's box for decades of economic and geopolitical problems.

Plus, I don't think the terrain is good for the heavy MBTs, like the type 99. the light ones maybe, but definitely too mountainous for the heavy ones.

 

[no_name]

View attachment 9532

The Macedonian Phalanx's worst nightmare.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The Macedonian Phalanx's worst nightmare.

LOL! A few years back a Japanese Scifi writer wrote a story about a SDF unit that got sent back to the Japanese Warring states period. I read the Manga version which was really good. I remember the opener had the SDF commander having just killed Nobunaga, is standing in front of a Tank as the Retainers of the killed lord prepare themselves to charge him. The commander orders the tank to fire. The shock wave alone knocks them off there feet the sound bursts there ear drums. It was a pretty good read.

Any way I think the message he was trying to send is well there is a sabot round. And there they are. And here is the block of steel that was penetrated in testing and there it is. But the problem is. It only proves penetration of a block of rolled Homogeneous Steel. Against American Abrams it also has to penetrate frontal depleted uranium mesh plates, and against some of the newest European tanks it would be facing composite armors mixed in. The Chinese want to say it beats western tanks as they are trying to sell there tanks and armaments abroad, they also want to be able to if need be kill the tanks of potential foes in there regional theater, so they base there testing on what they know of Western tanks. The problem is things change and change again. Kiw mentioned the American and Israeli merkeva upgrades most of the features being urban in nature but they also feature upgrades that are general purpose. Including now ERA kits for Abrams and Trophy for Merkeva. Trophy is designed to deflect not just ATGMs but also sabot rounds and missile rounds. The Israelis had to make that a requirement, as not only do they have to deal with the uprisings but also potential invasion by there neighbors. Trophy was not deployed in time for the last major Israeli conflict. So its still hard to say how it will fare but I suspect that more and more Trophy and systems like it are going to become more and more par for the course demanding newer rounds and updates.

 

[Lezt]

Any way I think the message he was trying to send is well there is a sabot round. And there they are. And here is the block of steel that was penetrated in testing and there it is. But the problem is. It only proves penetration of a block of rolled Homogeneous Steel. Against American Abrams it also has to penetrate frontal depleted uranium mesh plates, and against some of the newest European tanks it would be facing composite armors mixed in. The Chinese want to say it beats western tanks as they are trying to sell there tanks and armaments abroad, they also want to be able to if need be kill the tanks of potential foes in there regional theater, so they base there testing on what they know of Western tanks. The problem is things change and change again. Kiw mentioned the American and Israeli merkeva upgrades most of the features being urban in nature but they also feature upgrades that are general purpose. Including now ERA kits for Abrams and Trophy for Merkeva. Trophy is designed to deflect not just ATGMs but also sabot rounds and missile rounds. The Israelis had to make that a requirement, as not only do they have to deal with the uprisings but also potential invasion by there neighbors. Trophy was not deployed in time for the last major Israeli conflict. So its still hard to say how it will fare but I suspect that more and more Trophy and systems like it are going to become more and more par for the course demanding newer rounds and updates.

I agree, but we also have to remember that for comparison, everything is boiled down to RHAe - Rolled Homogeneous Armor Equivalent. Of course reality is much more complex, but the picture do suggest that the penetrate can go through ~1 meter of RHA or more. This is basically equivalency of performance to a M829A3 or a DM63 assuming it is of a reasonable range...

 

[duskylim]

i think there will may be a conflict with india at the border and india - china relations are not good i think, in kashmir based chinese troops maybe get active when a conflict between pakistan and india brouks out. and india has mutch more modern tanks ( 248 Arjuns, 1050 T90, 2400 T72 and over 200 namica tank hunters) 2020 600 T90 more and china maybe 1000 type 99 2500 type 96 and mutch more extremly aging tanks
but sure the indian air force and navy is very small and china has more modern fighter and bomber and the countrys in southeast asia havent a powerful military like china

I'm sorry but this is a completely unrealistic scenario.

No matter how many modern tanks the Indians have, there is almost no possibility of a tank-vs-tank battle between China and India along their common border.

Why?

Well simply because there is the matter of the most formidable mountain range in the world, the Greater and Lesser Himalayas between them.

How many main battle tanks do you know have fought at 16,000+ ft (the average height of the Tibetan plateau) along such narrow mountain passes and alpine conditions?

Furthermore despite having all those modern tanks, the road infrastructure of India along and into the border region is (by their own admission) inadequate, poorly-maintained and in many cases simply non-existent.

How will you get main battle tanks up there in the first place?

Do not be misled by the Indian generals' tough talk.

That's all it is, bluster.

The Indian officer corps is professional enough to recognize that they are for the foreseeable future unable to realistically challenge the Chinese forces in any test of real military strength.

They continue to bluster in order to justify a bloated defense budget from which they skim the largess.

That is why instead of improving the transportation system into the contested border areas so that they can adequately supply the existing troops they have stationed there, or be able to properly sustain logistically any future operations that may be undertaken, they have made what seems to be an illogical proposal.

They will raise an new Mountain Strike (Infantry) Corps (further straining the inadequate supply infrastructure) supposedly to challenge the PLA's dominance in the area.

Realistically they would be better off if they concentrated on improving their air power.

But then that would send all the lovely money to the Indian Air Force and not the Army.