New Type98/99 MBT thread
- Thread starter Dongfeng
- Start date
Is there a way to assess how many type99 tanks have been produced so far? Its been a decade now since various models of type99 have been produced, we could be looking at hundreds/ close to a thousand tanks. What about type 96? have those been produced in high numbers as well during the last 10-15 years? Do we have any numbers for those, so far?
MwRYum
Major
They called things like that "state's secret" in China, if you read something about that on Chinese BBS it's 99% wild guess and rumor.
But if you insist on guessing...the safe figure would be a 3-digit one for ZTZ-96 series and 2-but-closer-3-digit one for Type 99 series...but even in such numbers, obsolete scraps like the Type 59 are still serving...
I am asking because i see varios people (kcandrew, franco-russe, etc) talking about a batallion of this, batallion of that as if the info on hardware numbers can somehow be assessed. They were talking about IFVs and artillery vehicles, but still, perhaps that is also applicable for tanks.
three digits for 96? thats from 100 to 999 pieces? that is rather vague. also, high 2 digits for 99 seems a bit low, as even the western sources way back in 2005 worked with 200-300 hundred tanks.
i am not that much interested in total numbers as i am in yearly production volumes. unless i misunderstood here and the 2 or 3 digit values were actually yearly production rates. in which case that seems A LOT. perhaps unrealistically so.
tank batallion should be around 40-50 tanks, no? is it safe to assume that at least one batallion worth of 96 and one of 99 were produced in the last 10 years?
three digits for 96? thats from 100 to 999 pieces? that is rather vague. also, high 2 digits for 99 seems a bit low, as even the western sources way back in 2005 worked with 200-300 hundred tanks.
i am not that much interested in total numbers as i am in yearly production volumes. unless i misunderstood here and the 2 or 3 digit values were actually yearly production rates. in which case that seems A LOT. perhaps unrealistically so.
tank batallion should be around 40-50 tanks, no? is it safe to assume that at least one batallion worth of 96 and one of 99 were produced in the last 10 years?
Up now, the ZTZ99 (derivates are G and A) is deployed in the number of 660 after the restructuring of PLA armoured divisions into brigades. The ZTZ99A2 or ZTZ99B (no confimation about the correct designation) is at least deployed in one battalion (so 41 copies) in the 112th Heavy Mechanized Infantry Division, 38th GA of Beijing MR.
So, it should be around ~700 ZTZ99 of all versions (G,A,B/A2 etc).
For ZTZ96A there are around 722, while the basic ZTZ96 is around 1054, making some 1776 ZTZ96/A.
hope this helps.
So, it should be around ~700 ZTZ99 of all versions (G,A,B/A2 etc).
For ZTZ96A there are around 722, while the basic ZTZ96 is around 1054, making some 1776 ZTZ96/A.
hope this helps.
thank you. so annual production of type 99 would be some 70-80 examples (2 battalions worth?) per year, while for type 96, which has been in production for some 15 years so far, we are looking at closer to 120 tanks per year (3 batallions?).
I do have to ask - what sources do we have for any of those figures? Is it conjecture based on available photographs or is it at least in part some official statement from producer or PLA concerning "new batallion being modernized", yearly production goals etc etc... ?
Sources are... everything. Seriously.
Ask experts like franco-russe and kcandrew about it, and they will tell you the same things. PLA Orbat discussions are topics that go on for several years and include detective work encompassing everything from official statements, netizen reports, random photos of AFV's being seen on trailers at some rail-station, PLA insider-comments and of course guesswork. After that, identifying tactical numbers/turret numbers and digging in PLA personalities and lists about disbanded/reformed legacy units are yet another entirely new can of worms that must be opened. If everything works out, we have a semi-complete Orbat of a regiment... until brigadization happens and everything is thrown off course again.
As for production numbers... Even though you didnt imply this; I still have to mention that I wouldnt be so sure about the further escalation of main battle tank production.
The ZTZ99B will most probably be produced at the same pace as now, replacing the ZTZ99A production lines, and the ZTZ96A will also still be manufactured, but one has to keep in mind that the PLA is currently turning some formerly heavy mechanized/tracked units into light mechanized units or amphibious mechanized units equipped with ZBL09 8x8 IFVs and its 105mm assault-gun and 122mm howitzer derivates, or ZTD05 amphibious tank and ZBD05 amphibious IFVs respectively in due order, so that these units will just hand over their main battle tanks to other units. A good example is how the 335th regiment of the 112th HMID gave away all their tracked vehicles (they were ZSD89 APC's and ZTZ99A tanks) to another unit, while receiving ZBL09 IFV's and derivates in return, turning them into a chinese Stryker-brigade of some sorts. The tanks they have handed over were received by a unit in Shenyang MR, which now replaced their ZTZ59s with these new tanks without ever increasing the production number of this type in general.
So, PLA modernization shouldnt just be seen with only the main battle tanks in mind, but also with the overall mechanization of the armed forces.
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ZTZ99B ? its the first time i have read about it. What is it?
It's the other unofficial designation of the Type-99A2. No one is sure what's it's called so some refer to it as the A2 while others the B.
Of course this begs the question, even if it may belong on another thread, what are China's inventory and production rates for its latest generation of IFVs/APCs? And is this more of an upgrade/replacement effort or more of an expansion of its mechanized forces?