New Type98/99 MBT thread

[King_Comm]

Different engine arrangement would inevitably lead to different transmission and fuel tank arrangement, and enlongated chasis which inturn will lead to different road wheel arrangements, a new engine arrangement would require a redesign of the chasis.

So contrary to what MIGleader suggested, type 96 which was derived from type 85, would be closer to T-72 as they both come from the T-55 root.

 

[Gollevainen]

yeas, redesing of the existing T-72 desing, not making it out from the scratch that would be required if one wants to call Type 99 as totally indegenious tank..... as someones wants to see it.

 

[ChinaWall65]

yeas, redesing of the existing T-72 desing, not making it out from the scratch that would be required if one wants to call Type 99 as totally indegenious tank..... as someones wants to see it.

so where does it say Type 99 is totally indegenious...all tank designs are somewhat influencedby other designs...

From your reasoning, you can say that because the M1 Abram uses Leopard's 120mm main gun, then it must be based on the Leopard...but we all know that is not true.

 

[MIGleader]

==Type 99's chasis is not derived from T-72, Type-99's is longitudinally placed while T-72 has a latitudinally placed engine, and the chasis of Type 99 is one meter longer.

the new an-70 joint project between ukraine and china has a 5 meter enlarge body from the origianal an-70. does that make it a new design? Do the new engines make it a new design? Absolutely not. (sorry for being off-topic, but i thougt it was a nice example)

Its no doubt the 99 is somehow derived from the t-72, mainly in the hull. and theres nothing wrong with that. Evne early russian tanks in the 20s/30s were based off of american designs. A certian mr. aluka will gladly point out all the hull similarities there are, especially the V thing(in lack of a better term) at the front.

 

[ahho]

It means that the autoloader is in the turret bustle (in the rearside overhang of the turret) and not in the turret root like in soviet and chinese tanks. Bustle autoloaders are fitted in Japanese type-90 and French Lecler. Also Ukrainian modernised version of T-80 called T-84, have a version called T-84-120 or oblot which have western 120mm cannon and bustle autoloader.

just wondering, does chines tank such as type-96 and 99 have such autoloader, and what benefit does this bring????

 

[vincelee]

we don't know for sure. As for autoloaders, well, the tank has to accommodate one less person.

 

[ChinaWall65]

the new an-70 joint project between ukraine and china has a 5 meter enlarge body from the origianal an-70. does that make it a new design? Do the new engines make it a new design? Absolutely not. (sorry for being off-topic, but i thougt it was a nice example)

Its no doubt the 99 is somehow derived from the t-72, mainly in the hull. and theres nothing wrong with that. Evne early russian tanks in the 20s/30s were based off of american designs. A certian mr. aluka will gladly point out all the hull similarities there are, especially the V thing(in lack of a better term) at the front.

Of course part of Type 99 might be derived from T-72, like the V-shaped thing of the hull you pointed out...but first of all the entire hull is not derived from the T-72...to make the hull one meter longer and change the placement of the engine, there must be many many innovations made to the internal of the hull...
the only major feature in common between T-72 and Type 99 is that the hull looks a like on the outside...but having few things in common doesn't mean they're derivatives of eachother...for example, the Abram has a Leopard's main gun, but that doesn't mean Abram is based on Leopard; india's Arjun's turret looks like Leopard's turret, but that doesn't make Arjun Leopard's derivative; the Japanese Type 90 also looks like Leopard, but that still doesn't make Type 90 Leopard's derivative...oh wait, type 99 has add-on armour similar to the Leopard's style, that must mean that type 99 must be based on the Leopard? of course not...you gotta draw the line somewhere.
having one feature in common doesn't mean the entire tank, type 99, is based on T-72. The external looks of the hull is nothing compared to the rest of the features of type 99. When it comes to the tank, Type 99, it is an indigenous design...

 

[Gollevainen]

just wondering, does chines tank such as type-96 and 99 have such autoloader, and what benefit does this bring????

no they doesen't. All chinese tanks which has an autoloader has the russian type carusel autoloader placed in the turret root.

Of course part of Type 99 might be derived from T-72, like the V-shaped thing of the hull you pointed out...but first of all the entire hull is not derived from the T-72...to make the hull one meter longer and change the placement of the engine, there must be many many innovations made to the internal of the hull...
the only major feature in common between T-72 and Type 99 is that the hull looks a like on the outside...but having few things in common doesn't mean they're derivatives of eachother...for example, the Abram has a Leopard's main gun, but that doesn't mean Abram is based on Leopard; india's Arjun's turret looks like Leopard's turret, but that doesn't make Arjun Leopard's derivative; the Japanese Type 90 also looks like Leopard, but that still doesn't make Type 90 Leopard's derivative...oh wait, type 99 has add-on armour similar to the Leopard's style, that must mean that type 99 must be based on the Leopard? of course not...you gotta draw the line somewhere.
having one feature in common doesn't mean the entire tank, type 99, is based on T-72. The external looks of the hull is nothing compared to the rest of the features of type 99. When it comes to the tank, Type 99, it is an indigenous design...

That's just living in denyal. T-72 and Type 99 does share very similar hull, and it's said in various sources that the chinese tank hull is derivated from the russian tank. It's 1 meter longer, but that doesen't mean anyhting. It's propaply due the fact that the engine is placed differently, thus requiring longer hull. But if you look the most important features, like the suspension and wheels, you cannot avoid the fact that the two tanks share a relationship. Stating what you said about leopards type of armour and so on is just childish.

What is it with you and others? Some inferior complex? Overboosted nationlaistic pride thing? Chinese tanks are not 100% indegenious, not single one of them entering serial production. All first generation tanks are based in T-54 and the seccond generation incorporates T-72 weapon system and layout. The third generation was the first effort to get some indegenious tank, tough still fielding the T-72s concept. The first version, which had an indegenious hull, failed (type 90). But the seccond (Type 98) returned to just derivating the russian hull adding some lenght and other improvements. Is it direct copy of T-72? No, but it's still derivated from it. Why it is so hard to you to get it?

 

[King_Comm]

What is it with you and others? Some inferior complex? Overboosted nationlaistic pride thing? Chinese tanks are not 100% indegenious, not single one of them entering serial production. All first generation tanks are based in T-54 and the seccond generation incorporates T-72 weapon system and layout. The third generation was the first effort to get some indegenious tank, tough still fielding the T-72s concept. The first version, which had an indegenious hull, failed (type 90). But the seccond (Type 98) returned to just derivating the russian hull adding some lenght and other improvements. Is it direct copy of T-72? No, but it's still derivated from it. Why it is so hard to you to get it?

==Of course Type 99's hull is not 100% indigineous, but the engine lay out is quite similar to western designs in order to accomodate German style 1200hp and 1500hp diesel engines, and it is impossible for the Type 99's or any other Chinese tanks' general arrangement to be too different from the T-72 because they are products from the same school of thoughts, i.e. deep battle, tanks are required to have high strategic and operational mobility, and relatively small reliance on logistical support, and used for depth strike, thus the large road wheels, 3 crew, 50 tonne weight limit, carousel auto-loader, low height etc.

==By thew way, China's second generation tanks did not incorporate T-72 weapon system and layout, they were still based on the T-54, with indigenous and western weapon systems.

 

[Gollevainen]

By thew way, China's second generation tanks did not incorporate T-72 weapon system and layout, they were still based on the T-54, with indigenous and western weapon systems.

Well i was refering to the Type 88C/Type 96 which is seccond generation tank with the T-72 type of weapon arragment.