Yes, definitely AI-enhanced.
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New SSN (09X?) thread
- Thread starter ACuriousPLAFan
- Start date
Yes, definitely AI-enhanced.
it actually does look like SSN-774 variant of Virginia class. @Tomboy was spot on.
here is the close view of 093B sail. doesn't match with.
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it actually does look like SSN-774 variant of Virginia class. @Tomboy was spot on.
here is the close view of 093B sail. doesn't match with.
Yes, it is a lot smaller sail & likely shorter than 093 by comparison (as measured in proportion to overall length of the sub). And as we've seen with 093 -> 093A various version -> 093B, the sail was already getting more and more hydrodynamic and 093B sail looks pretty good.
And this initial boat is a good start in going even more hydrodynamic and designed more with active sonar pinging in mind. And over time, I'd expect even more shifting toward that. They basically maxed out in 093B with what a hull like that could do, so now they have a new hull and production line that they will continue to improve on over time.
The large tail control surfaces appear to correlate with the configuration of Type 09V, which raises further questions as to the relationship between the two designs. More so obviously because Bohai is building this new design as well.
The other aspect is the question whether this new design is single or double hull. Certainly this new image would suggest its the latter, due to the high buoyancy. But its early days.
The other aspect is the question whether this new design is single or double hull. Certainly this new image would suggest its the latter, due to the high buoyancy. But its early days.
Some speculations on the potential designs and roles of this new 09X SSN (of my own) based on observations as of present.
From the most likely to the least likely:
#1 - This boat is an SSGN variant of the 095 SSN.
This is the most straight-forward deduction, given the estimated hull diameter of this SSN. The position and size of the sail on this SSN is both smaller and more fore to the bow compared to the sail on the 095. Alongside the increased length of this SSN over the 095, these two would/should point towards a larger midsection to house more VLS cells or more multipack VLS tubes.
#2 - This boat is a special-mission variant of the 095 SSN.
Generally with the same reasoning as #1. Though, given the rapid succession of construction of two units of this boat is built simultaneously (alongside the relative number of special mission variants of SSNs relative to the overall size of the SSNs we see with the US and Russian navies), I'd rate this to be slightly less probable than #1 - That is, unless the PLAN is putting significantly larger focus into special mission aspects (undersea warfare in particular) on their future subsurface fleet than what we have anticipated/expected thus far.
#3 - This boat is simply an upgraded variant of the (base) 095 SSN.
Plausible, but it does sound kinda (too?) quick to build a noticeably upgraded variant of the 095 SSN, considering the first boat of the class had only hit the water less than 4 months ago. However, I wouldn't exclude the probability of some kind of combination of features from both #1 and #2 on this variant in order to become the new "base" variant of the 095 class.
#4 - This boat is a hunter-killer variant of the 095 SSN.
Doesn't seem that likely (to me), given how the general consensus being that hunter-killer SSNs like the Seawolfs would be having a rather "fixed" hull length-to-beam ratio that is generally "short-but-thick" in order to achieve enhanced maneuverability in subsurface combat against enemy underwater assets in the deep ocean.
#5 - This boat is a 093C SSN (i.e., further development of thr 093B SSN).
Like, why even bother? Even the 093B SSN, with their much more advanced, across-the-board upgrades compared to their predecessors (093/A), still retains the ~9 meter diameter hull. Suddenly expanding the hull to ~12 meters while retaining the core hull design just doesn't pass the smell test - Might as well just build the 095 SSN that is superior to the 093B SSN in pretty much every way.
From the most likely to the least likely:
#1 - This boat is an SSGN variant of the 095 SSN.
This is the most straight-forward deduction, given the estimated hull diameter of this SSN. The position and size of the sail on this SSN is both smaller and more fore to the bow compared to the sail on the 095. Alongside the increased length of this SSN over the 095, these two would/should point towards a larger midsection to house more VLS cells or more multipack VLS tubes.
#2 - This boat is a special-mission variant of the 095 SSN.
Generally with the same reasoning as #1. Though, given the rapid succession of construction of two units of this boat is built simultaneously (alongside the relative number of special mission variants of SSNs relative to the overall size of the SSNs we see with the US and Russian navies), I'd rate this to be slightly less probable than #1 - That is, unless the PLAN is putting significantly larger focus into special mission aspects (undersea warfare in particular) on their future subsurface fleet than what we have anticipated/expected thus far.
#3 - This boat is simply an upgraded variant of the (base) 095 SSN.
Plausible, but it does sound kinda (too?) quick to build a noticeably upgraded variant of the 095 SSN, considering the first boat of the class had only hit the water less than 4 months ago. However, I wouldn't exclude the probability of some kind of combination of features from both #1 and #2 on this variant in order to become the new "base" variant of the 095 class.
#4 - This boat is a hunter-killer variant of the 095 SSN.
Doesn't seem that likely (to me), given how the general consensus being that hunter-killer SSNs like the Seawolfs would be having a rather "fixed" hull length-to-beam ratio that is generally "short-but-thick" in order to achieve enhanced maneuverability in subsurface combat against enemy underwater assets in the deep ocean.
#5 - This boat is a 093C SSN (i.e., further development of thr 093B SSN).
Like, why even bother? Even the 093B SSN, with their much more advanced, across-the-board upgrades compared to their predecessors (093/A), still retains the ~9 meter diameter hull. Suddenly expanding the hull to ~12 meters while retaining the core hull design just doesn't pass the smell test - Might as well just build the 095 SSN that is superior to the 093B SSN in pretty much every way.
I would add another option, sort of similar to #4 (not sure about likelihood) - that next gen project yielded two competing designs for the same mission. and that PLAN might decide on the winner only after some tests are done. This other sub might for example feature a single hull, explaning the length. Image might be too blurry to deduce if sub is really sitting too low or not to imply single or double hull, given that it is likely not furnished yet.
To add to the discussion on the possibility of the 09X SSN being an SSGN, here are a couple of CG illustrations on the possible configurations of the 09X and the 095 SSNs made by @Nx4eu.
The 1st illustration has 5x multipack VLS tubes, likely based on a particular illustration on the satellite imagery of the 09X from earlier - Let's call this Config A.
The 2nd and 3rd illustrations are based on the possibility of the 09X having the same number of multipack VLS tubes as what has been anticipated on the 095 SSN as of present (i.e. 8x multipack VLS tubes) - Let's call this Config B.
Now, speaking of the multipack VLS tubes:
- The most widely-held consensus as of today is that every mutipack VLS tube houses 3x UVLS-sized cells of 850mm diameter. This would make the 095 SSN be equipped with a total of 24x UVLS cells (i.e. same as the 093B SSN) per boat, which also applies to the 09X SSN in Config B. In Config A, the 09X SSN would have a total of 15x UVLS cells per boat.
- In the meantime, it has also been rumored that the multipack VLS tubes (of the same diameter) could potentially hold 4 UVLS-sized cells each (though this is generally less well-regarded/acknowledged). This would mean that the 095 and the 09X SSNs (in Config B, for the latter) each have 32x UVLS cells per boat. In Config A, the 09XSSN would have a total of 20x UVLS cells per boat.
- On the other hand, I believe someone has roughly measured/estimated the width of the central "spine" that runs along the midsection of the 09X SSN to be ~2.6 meters. Should the multipack VLS tubes have a diameter of ~2.5-2.7 meters (which is certainly plausible), this would theoretically enable up to 5x UVLS-sized cells to be housed inside each of them:
(illustration not to scale)
This would mean that the 09X SSN could have a potential total VLS loadout of 25x UVLS cells in Config A and 40x UVLS cells in Config B.
- In addition, taking advantage of the positioning of the multipack VLS tubes along the centerline of the submarine (resulting in having the largest amount of vertical hull spaces in the submarine hull), a ~2.6-2.7-meter diameter multipack UVLS could also theoretically house 2x LVLS cells of 1200mm diameter (which has been sparsely claimed/rumored to be under development for future large surface combatants), perhaps in addition to 2 more smaller-sized VLS cells occupying the remainder of the spaces inside the multipack VLS tubes:
(illustration not to scale)
Of course, much of the above discussion are based on my (un-)educated guesses on the matter. With the absence of more conclusive information and evidences at this time, please do take my words for (hypothetical) reference purposes only.
The 1st illustration has 5x multipack VLS tubes, likely based on a particular illustration on the satellite imagery of the 09X from earlier - Let's call this Config A.
The 2nd and 3rd illustrations are based on the possibility of the 09X having the same number of multipack VLS tubes as what has been anticipated on the 095 SSN as of present (i.e. 8x multipack VLS tubes) - Let's call this Config B.
Now, speaking of the multipack VLS tubes:
- The most widely-held consensus as of today is that every mutipack VLS tube houses 3x UVLS-sized cells of 850mm diameter. This would make the 095 SSN be equipped with a total of 24x UVLS cells (i.e. same as the 093B SSN) per boat, which also applies to the 09X SSN in Config B. In Config A, the 09X SSN would have a total of 15x UVLS cells per boat.
- In the meantime, it has also been rumored that the multipack VLS tubes (of the same diameter) could potentially hold 4 UVLS-sized cells each (though this is generally less well-regarded/acknowledged). This would mean that the 095 and the 09X SSNs (in Config B, for the latter) each have 32x UVLS cells per boat. In Config A, the 09XSSN would have a total of 20x UVLS cells per boat.
- On the other hand, I believe someone has roughly measured/estimated the width of the central "spine" that runs along the midsection of the 09X SSN to be ~2.6 meters. Should the multipack VLS tubes have a diameter of ~2.5-2.7 meters (which is certainly plausible), this would theoretically enable up to 5x UVLS-sized cells to be housed inside each of them:
(illustration not to scale)
This would mean that the 09X SSN could have a potential total VLS loadout of 25x UVLS cells in Config A and 40x UVLS cells in Config B.
- In addition, taking advantage of the positioning of the multipack VLS tubes along the centerline of the submarine (resulting in having the largest amount of vertical hull spaces in the submarine hull), a ~2.6-2.7-meter diameter multipack UVLS could also theoretically house 2x LVLS cells of 1200mm diameter (which has been sparsely claimed/rumored to be under development for future large surface combatants), perhaps in addition to 2 more smaller-sized VLS cells occupying the remainder of the spaces inside the multipack VLS tubes:
(illustration not to scale)
Of course, much of the above discussion are based on my (un-)educated guesses on the matter. With the absence of more conclusive information and evidences at this time, please do take my words for (hypothetical) reference purposes only.
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PeoplesPoster
Junior Member
I don't think the rear control surfaces are really that big, most likely they are covered with some kind of tarp along with the propeller/pump jet making the dimensions look exaggerated.
Unless there's a frame or other removable structure within the tarp, it's clear that the rudders are disproportionately large.
I don't think we can see them as a 095 or 093 variant or such because dimension is quite different. Also, it's not really in PLAN's way of doing things to have special variant before the original version even started sea trials.
I think we should just see them as separate sub class. This one may well be a SSGN or something else. That's TBD. I think special mission variant is quite unlikely.