new PAP special forces unit

P

PanAsian

Major
MwRYum said:
Because gun-welding violence is still extremely rare in China and even if occur, usually the Xinjiang region where automatic weapons are smuggled from neighbouring conflict zones, this thing is in response to the more likely knife-welding violence and the strict ROE Chinese law enforcement concerning firearms.

According to more pics posted, the mace are issued to those stationed at large public areas, 3-men standing post, one carry this scary thing, the other carry a shotgun and the other carry a fork-like pole that can pin the aggressor's torso safely. Think about it, unlike a metre-long pole where you might be able to grab onto the end to pin the policeman for that duration, you simply can't or won't want to try to do the same when against that! Unless, of course, you're so drugged up or drunk that you no longer capable of reasons.

Think of it like chainswords in "Warhammer 40000", just the presence of that thing alone speaks loudly of the intent and ability to inflict massive and messy pain. Works better than those tiny service pistol or that stupid revolver the Chinese police are issued with, unless of course you're carrying an AK, which calls for another level of game, and your opponent is now the SWAT team...

Like I said, in China size matters, and when something that big and with that many pointy bits, you got the intimidation factor covered in the ROE.
Click to expand...

All of a sudden the sword baton from a while back seems awfully practical. This mace is ridiculous.

If they insist on going melee then I think they should issue armored gloves, arm guards, chest plates, single-handed hardened cattle prod "sword taser"s, and maybe riot bucklers.

Then there are pistols which should absolutely be standard issue for PAP. The revolver is ridiculous but does make sense for poorly trained regular cops who are just as likely to be targeted for it.

If their goal is to have the option to capture rather than kill then SMGs with rubber bullet and live round magazines would work better than fork and mace. Shotguns are good, can have the same options as the SMG as well as choice of buckshot or slug.

But obviously all this costs more money and training and probably isn't as fun or intimidating as playing with medieval or fantasy movie props.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
vesicles said:
I'm thinking the same thing. A mace like that made of metal would weigh a ton. The soldiers look pretty at ease with them.

Even if it is rubber, I think it is a little too over the top. A wolf-tooth mace used to one of the most fearsome weapons on the battlefield in ancient China. The image of police officers holding it and the idea of police officers intending to use it on civilians would be a lot to swallow... I think this is more likely to backfire on them...
Click to expand...
It won't be too heavy. A high grade steel hollow head can be both strong and light. Two or three kilograms. That is nothing.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It looks intimidating, I am not sure if it is just a stunt by some hot-headed local commanders, but I tend to NOT think so. This is the PAP that we are talking about, they don't have as much autonomy as their civilian counterpart. PAP is army, not civilian police and officials.

If I put the decision making aside, I do see it as very practical as an anti-terror weapon. Remember most of the high profile terrorist attacks in China recently are "sword/knife" attacks. In one case in Kunming, Yunnan(
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). One police officer shot 5 shots at a perpetrator in the range of 10 meters, eventually disabled the perpetrator. Pulling out a pistol and shot the suspect in one or two seconds without chance to aim is extremely difficult. Even with pistol in hand and cocked, disable an attacker within 10 meters is still dangerous and difficult. Think about at what distance an American police would shot while he has already aimed his pistol well. I have seen Youtube video of American police training, a pistol has no advantage against an attacker with a short knife, let alone a long knife. A baton is no better even a long one, the attacker can simple grab it. The mace is totally different. You don't need to swing it, just pock the attacker, keep him in distance, if he refuse to surrender, smash him, it will be messy and ugly but that is the point.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
PanAsian said:
All of a sudden the sword baton from a while back seems awfully practical. This mace is ridiculous.

If they insist on going melee then I think they should issue armored gloves, arm guards, chest plates, single-handed hardened cattle prod "sword taser"s, and maybe riot bucklers.

Then there are pistols which should absolutely be standard issue for PAP. The revolver is ridiculous but does make sense for poorly trained regular cops who are just as likely to be targeted for it.

If their goal is to have the option to capture rather than kill then SMGs with rubber bullet and live round magazines would work better than fork and mace. Shotguns are good, can have the same options as the SMG as well as choice of buckshot or slug.

But obviously all this costs more money and training and probably isn't as fun or intimidating as playing with medieval or fantasy movie props.
Click to expand...
I'd say it is designed for sword-welding terrorists, not ordinary rioters. Arresting is secondary, eliminating is primary. We are well aware of the "keep only one alive policy".;)
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
plawolf said:
That is literally going medieval on th criminals.

These are issued in Tianjing, so I really have no idea what they were thinking.

It's a deadly and unwieldy weapon that can cause pretty horrific injuries.

I really struggle to see any situation where using them would be justifiable or even practical.

You need to really swing these to use them effectively, so creates a huge danger zone around the wielder that will be just as hazardous to fellow officers and innocent bystanders as it is against the intended target.

It will also be useless in anywhere other than a park or square where there is plenty of open space.

I think they chose them for intimation factor, but that's a poor reason to issue them.
Click to expand...
not on ordinary criminals and rioters but sword-welding terrorists?
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
SampanViking said:
Interesting!
It certainly is Medieaval, but I do not see it a swung weapon, but more of a Pike style thrust weapon.
A line of officers pushing these, would certainly break up a rioting crowd, especially one where there are people with knives or other hand weapons.
I do understand how this could be a heavy option before the use of Firearms and Lethal Force in a crowd control situation. A weapon used at distance to literally "disarm" a rioter, rather than crush a skull.

If you had two ranks of officers similarly armed, I could see this as very effective for a controlled (none charge) advance to clear a street or square.

The difficulty I see (as this clearly is not going to be a piece of standard issue) is getting the things out of store and deployed before the incident is well and truly over and all concerned gone off to the pub.
Click to expand...
I think:
  1. primary target is Sword-welding terrorists.
  2. Issued to small groups and in the hand of a well trained PAP soldier stationed in every little wooden "house" in every crowed area (the primary target of terrorist attack), such as railway station (like Kunming2014) or street juncture (like Ürümchi 2009).
  3. Eliminate the threat is the primary purpose, all others are secondary.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
solarz said:
In Tianjin? Not very likely! I still think it's some kind of promotional stunt for the "ancient culture street".
Click to expand...
Don't underestimate the terrorists. If it happened in Kunming, what makes the terrorists stop at Tianjin or any other big cities?

Beijing has experienced twice of terrorists attack, the first one was in the 1980s, a bombing on a bus at Xidan street, a shopping area, the second one being the recent one in Tiananmen. Tianjin did not have any (and I hope never). But the point is that, the size of the city, the geographical location, the political significance of the city make absolutely no point to the terrorists. They only want to kill and terrorize, the more the better, that is their only point.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
What if this is a movie prop? They might be shooting some crazy nonsense movie/TV show about ancient people coming back to the future...

I mean this makes no sense to be used in the real world. Something this big would be useless against swords and knives, even if it is hollow... It's too cumbersome and too slow...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top