New J-10 thread II

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jawad

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Military Aspects of the Air Show China 2008 Part 1

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The biannual China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition (also known as Zhuhai Air Show or Air Show China) was held in the southern city of Zhuhai between 4th and 9th November 2008. This is the 7th such airshow to be held by China since 1996. This year’s show featured the biggest line-up of Chinese-made civil and military aircraft, as well as aviation systems and conventional weapon systems developed by the Chinese aircraft industry. For the first time, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has sent its aircraft in current service to participate in the event.

The 7th Zhuhai Air Show coincided with the recent merge of China’s two consortia of aircraft manufacturers – China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC-I) and China Aviation Industry Corporation II (AVIC-II). Once a single entity, they were divided in 1999 in order to boost competition and as a consequence drive efficiency. However, the restructuring had not worked as expected and running the two separately also split resources and resulted in duplicates in investments. The newly merged China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) has brought a wide range of aircraft designs, aviation systems, and conventional weapon systems to the show.

PLAAF Debut

Previously the PLAAF had shied away from the Zhuhai air show, largely due to the concern that its military secrets may be disclosed. In previous years’ shows, Chinese indigenous military aircraft were only displayed in forms of prototypes and demonstrators carrying manufacturer liveries. This year, the PLAAF sent a line-up of seven combat and support aircraft to participate in both static displays and flight demonstrations, providing a valuable opportunity to examine some of its latest inventory at a close range. PLAAF aircraft displayed this year include two two J-10 fighters, two J-8D fighters, a JH-7A fighter-bomber, a H-6 refuelling tanker, and a Y-8 turboprop transport aircraft. Additionally, the PLA Army Aviation Corps sent three helicopters: a Z-8 helicopter, a Z-9GA attack helicopter, a Mi-171 helicopter to the air show. The China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) also displayed its L-15 advanced jet trainer and Z-11G attack helicopter.

Fighter Aircraft Technologies

This year for the first time general public was allowed to watch the PLAAF’s J-10 multirole fighter in both static display and flight demonstration. The aircraft, which entered service with the PLAAF in 2003, is likely to become available in the export market in the years to come. Pakistan has reportedly ordered 32~40 J-10 fighters and the deliver is expected to begin in 2009. :china: Currently the aircraft is powered by a Russian AL-31FN turbofan, but China is developing an indigenous turbofan WS-10 to power future J-10 productions.

However, there were some important designs missing in this year’s air show. Previously it was reported that the Pakistani Air Force was going to send two of its Chengdu JF-17 (a.k.a. FC-1 in its Chinese designation) to the air show, but the plan was cancelled the last minute possibly due to security concerns. Instead, a FC-1 training simulator was displayed in the air show. Another absentee was the J-11B, which was said to be based on the Russian Su-27SK airframe but fitted with Chinese indigenous avionics and weapon suites. The aircraft has been developed by AVIC Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) since 2001.

China is known to have been developing its next-generation fighter aircraft since the late 1990s. So far no much detail regarding the programme has been disclosed, but some technologies potentially linked to the future Chinese fighter aircraft could still be found in this year’s air show. One example being the a ‘glass’ fighter cockpit developed by AVIC, featuring a panoramic display system that resembles that of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightening II.

Air-Launched Weapons

Air-to-air weapons displayed in this year’s Zhuhai air show included the PL-5E, PL-9 and TY-90 IR-homing short-range AAM, as well as the SD-10 active radar-homing medium-range AAM, all of which were developed by the Luoyang-based China Academy of Air-to-Air Missile. Historically China was behind Russian and Western countries in the precision strike weapon technology but it has been quickly catching up. The LeiTing-2 (LT-2) 500kg laser-guided bomb (LGB) and LeiShi-6 (LS-6) precision-guided glide bomb first revealed in 2006 return to the air show this year. Additionally, a new design known as LeiTing-3 (LT-3) features a combined laser/GPS/inertial guidance for capability to operate in all-weather conditions.
 
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jawad

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News on J-10 confirming the TVC development for J-10

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China to accelerate air force modenisation
By Siva Govindasamy

China is likely to accelerate the modernisation of its fighter fleet over the next decade, and is looking to induct additional indigenous aircraft and order new types from Russia.

Beijing's Chengdu J-10 fighter was displayed publicly for the first time earlier this month at Airshow China 2008 in Zhuhai, where Chinese officials indicated that it would also develop new versions of the type. A B-model aircraft has already been proposed, with this to have a thrust-vectoring engine and an active electronically scanned array radar.:china:
"The J-10 has been identified as the backbone of the Chinese air force. They will continue to increase the production rate and improve on the earlier version," says one observer. China has never revealed how many J-10s have entered service since 2006, but industry sources speculate that more than 100 have been produced from an eventual requirement for around 300.


A naval version of the J-10 is also on the cards, with sources saying that China hopes to get its aircraft carrier programme up and running in the next decade. But with an indigenous naval fighter expected to take too long to develop, China is reportedly negotiating with Russia's Rosoboronexport arms agency for an interim batch of 48 Sukhoi Su-33 fighters.

China has also shown interest in the Su-35, but could first place a significant order for Chengdu's FC-1/JF-17 fighter, which was jointly developed with Pakistan. Concurrently, Beijing is pursing several highly secretive studies to develop a stealthy fifth-generation fighter, and is also reportedly developing a stealth bomber, various unmanned air vehicles and indigenous powerplants.

Meanwhile, the air force's first cadre of eight pilots to graduate from the Chinese Flight Test Establishment finished their two-year course in mid-November, with each having received instruction on seven aircraft types and logged almost 1,000 sorties.
 

tphuang

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so, as you guys might have seen, there was a great article recently posted that was an interviewed with Lei Qiang, one of the test pilots for J-10 program.
So, one of the big shrimps on Chinese bbs posted his thoughts regarding Lei Qiang here.
巡天悍将——山城龙蛇斗


说到雷强,此人的外号“雷大胆”!与严峰的“严疯子”有的一拼。关于雷大胆的故事大家已经知道很多了,这里偶就说一段关于他的往事。

那是在几年前,当时歼-10飞机尚未通过航定委的设计定型,也远没有今日之风光。由于歼-10飞机在试飞过程中出现了一系列问题,而被某些主管单位的某些领导拿着放大镜挑毛病,欲置该型号于死地而后快!

当时某位空军高层,同时也是有名的大嘴巴兼大笔杆子到成飞考察工作。在观看了歼-10飞机的精彩飞行表演之后,与雷强等试飞三大队的飞官座谈时,该大嘴……大笔杆子问雷大胆说:“就以你来看,歼-10能否对抗苏-27?”

雷强似乎早就在等着领导的这一问,实际上早有人跟他通气说,这次来头不小,后面背景复杂。当时空军中除了一个一贯支持国产装备的马参谋长,就是已经退役的林副司令强烈支持歼-10。在某部门一堆混事揽死的干部子弟的折腾下,即使是乔老爷也不便于明确发表意见。而在当时,空军内部也还真是侧卫无敌轮大行其道的当口!最逗的是,某些人拿着30的航程和载荷比出来的效能比,来证明歼-10的不行……

雷大胆果然大胆,在领导面前侃侃而谈,将歼-10的性能特点以及对苏-27的各方面优势一一娓娓道来。最后,雷sir以非常肯定的语气说:“就我的飞行经验,我认为歼-10完全能够克制苏-27飞机!”

该领导带着满意的微笑离开成飞后,又到空军驻山城某师视察。该部队在2000年换装苏-27之后,战斗力逐年持续提升,已经成为空军的重点作战部队之一。

在与该部队的几位老飞交谈过程中,该大笔杆子把雷大胆的话一字不改地说了一遍,当时就遭到了几位老飞的鄙视。作为一线作战部队的资深飞行员,他们认为试飞员是很了不起的,所承担的任务也是很重大的。但是,根据过去的经验,中国的试飞员一般来说对于新型号的性能是有深入了解的,但是对于新型战机的战术战法就不一定了。原因无他,因为试飞员一般不承担这方面的任务。

当时我们的空军还在强调,以苏-27战机为核心,通过战术战法上的革新全面压制对岸的F-16MLU和幻影2000-5。因此这些飞官认为,虽然歼-10采用了很多新技术,系统也较为完善。但是通过他们多年来的演练,他们有信心依靠现有的装备在空战中战胜歼-10飞机!

带着两方面的意见,该领导返京后就这一问题向空司领导做出汇报,并且提出:可以让他们之间来一场大比武,以验证歼-10飞机的性能!

经过几番争论,最后决定以雷大胆为首,从第三试飞大队调几位试飞员,与山城某师的几位主力飞官进行一场空中比试!

当时不仅是空军,总部机关领导对于这一次比武也是相当重视。俗话说的好,是驴子是马拉出来溜溜!所谓实践是检验真理的唯一标准,光靠说(就如同我等菜鸟一天到晚在网上JJYY,有个吊用?),是不成地(那位说了,你丫不也是一天到晚在网上扯淡吗?……劳资愿意,要你管!)!

而这一次大比武的结果,是以歼-10战队的完胜而告终!从此,在空军及总部机关,敢于为歼-10说话的人多了,声音也大了。并为空军某单位的几位生意场上的高人,俄罗斯友人的友人的彻底歇菜奠定了坚实的基础。想当年pu爷的签名是:“打倒汉奸俄奴,驱逐废柴土鳖!”就是听了f22和面叔有关这方面的介绍才有感而发的。啊!非常厚道以及非常善良的我啊。

可以说,雷大胆的那一战,是为歼-10战机正名的一战!若非雷大胆敢于在领导面前仗义执言,而不是像某些人那样在领导面前说一些含含糊糊谁也不得罪的片汤话,是不会有这样的安排及结果的。

而这一切,除了因为雷强本人作为歼-10的首席试飞员,对于歼-10战机的性能表现充满信心!还因为雷大胆是我国在当时空前绝后的一位试飞员。这是因为 132厂自上世纪80年代以来就一直承担着援外任务,雷强不但是作为新型号的试飞员,而且还曾经多次作为承担援外任务的飞行教官而为中国军机的出口立下汗马功劳。作为教官,就使得雷大胆不但要对飞机的性能全面掌握,而且还要对我军和外军在空战中的各种战术战法有一个深入的了解。雷强作为我国援巴教官,在巴基斯坦曾经多次驾驶该国的美制和法制战机升空飞行,在实际操作中体会其性能,学习外军战术战法。

雷强作为一名试飞员、一名空军教官和一名副总师,非常重视学习和搜集其他国家的先进经验。他个人完成了大量的,对于提升我空军航空兵战斗力有重大帮助的笔记。仅有关地勤方面的建设革新建议,就使我空军作战部队获益良多!除了巴基斯坦之外,雷强还曾经多次前往中东某友好国家和西欧某国学习。虽然在这些国家不像在巴铁处那么方便,能够那样频繁地驾驶着F-16升空操练。但是,即使是相对有限的交流,依然使我们获益不少。具体的内容,f22 个人较为清楚,哪天请他老做进一步的说明。
Basically, he just talks about how the upper level in PLAAF didn't know how well J-10 would fare against su-27. So they asked Lei Qiang for his assessment. Unlike a more conservative/shy pilot would do, he clearly listed the areas that J-10 are better and the areas that su-27 are better. He ended it by saying that he definitely thinks J-10 can dominate su-27. So, they actually took su-27s flied by top pilots from one of the elite units and put it again J-10s flown by test pilots. And J-10 won handily. That is how J-10 project got supported. This man has also flown F-16 and Mirage III in Pakistan. He has also traveled to other country to see the tactics of other country's pilots. Basically, he has had some experience with modern Western fighters and tactics. His comments to PLAAF bosses and then the subsequent performance of J-10 vs su-27 probably ensured the success of the program.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
according to wmf, EW version of J-10 (EJ-10?) enter service last september.according to the article the aircraft provide standoff jamming similiar to EF-18G.
it is more likely that this specialized version compatible to F-16CJ,wild weisel type SAM suppression aircraft rather than escort jammer.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
中国9月份开始装备电子战歼10:与美最新性能相当!


  鼎盛军事网:据外媒报道,中国ej-10电子歼击机已于2008年9月正式装备部队,其性能与美国最新的电子战飞机ea—18g相当。


Ea—18g就是f-18的衍生机型,在本质上就是携带多个电子战吊仓的f-18。中国最新的电子战飞机ej-10就是歼10的衍生机型,在本质上就是携带多个电子战吊仓的歼10。


Ea—18g“咆哮者”实现了两个突破:电子攻击机的超音速突破;将电子战与常规战合二为一的突破。ej-10也实现了这两个突破。
  

  在海湾战争中,ea—6b与ef—111a和f—4g三种电子战机一起组成联合编队,近距离压制地面防空火力的制导、瞄准系统和通信指挥控制系统,极为出色地完成了任务,一战成名。


从此之后,电子战飞机声名鹊起,各国竞相研发电子战飞机。中国也研发了轰电-5和轰电-6。中国还让“飞豹”的衍生机型携带了电子战吊仓。这次,歼10的衍生机型ej-10电子歼击机取得了多项突破。
 

crobato

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That would be most interesting to see. Thanks for bringing it up. Now all we need are pictures to confirm this.
 

tphuang

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this is a video of the CCTV broadcast reporting the now infamous 2 J-10s taking down 4 su-27s.
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challenge

Banned Idiot
according to the US, china is developing new gen. of ECM base on DRFM.(digital RF memory).
introduction of DRFM allow eCM to cop with complex EW invironment.such as monopulse radar and frequency hopping radar.
but can DRFM based ECM reprogrammed into radar cancellation ?
 

overscan

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So, did anyone measure the J-10s at Zhuhai with a tape measure?

Seriously, wondering if there are decent figures for length, span etc. I noticed that the test pilot guy said the wing span was "more than 9 m", which leads to the lower size estimates.
 

crobato

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No need for Zhuhai for that. There are two retired J-10s, whose airframes are turned into public static displays. One is at Beijing, outside of AVIC's corporate office. The other, a two seater, is outside of CAC's corporate headquarters in Chengdu. I think people can just walk up to the displays.
 
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