New J-10 thread II

[crobato]

The Russians supplied the export version of the Flanker to China. Naturally, Russian export versions do not contain the same level of sophistication in terms of avionics package as Russian Flankers.

That's not really true. The equipment level is practically between the Su-27S and the Su-27SK. Actually the SK had a more robust airframe and landing gear that upped its payloads. Initially, the Su-27SK sent to China were equipped with a downgraded Gardenia ECM pod, but even this ECM pod is the equivalent of what the Russians had built into their domestic only MiG-29s. Export MiG-29s don't have built in ECM. In any case it was also moot, since the standard more advanced Sorbitsya ECM pod was later shipped to China anyway. Furthermore, later the Chinese Su-27s and J-11s were tweaked to enable them to use the R-77, which was not an option for the Russian Su-27s until they are upgraded to the SM standard.

The Su-30MKK had an avionics fit superior to the RuAF Su-27s and still the MKK lost their matches.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Have you seen the modified J-10? How do you know it's not so modified but upgraded? From all indications, the ugprade goes more than just upgraded engine and avionics upgrade. This will be an entirely new block designed to be superior to all the teen series and be equal/superior to Typhoon/Rafale.

As for J-10 escorts, I'm not sure why you are saying it needs AWACS or AEW escorts. If you are saying that it's inferior in BVR, that's not proven at this point, because it makes up for the weaker radar/EW with smaller RCS and superior turn rates.

Umm you read my post back to front, J-10 escorts AWACS and AEW meaning that the J-10 protects them. Not the other way around. If the J-10 is so modified to the Euro level with significant modifications then it shouldn't be called the J-10 anymore. Dunno we just have to wait and see, anyone assumption could be right.

 

[Londo Molari]

I don't think Russia is in a position to downgrade their equipment for export purposes, like the US does.

 

[Pointblank]

I don't think Russia is in a position to downgrade their equipment for export purposes, like the US does.

They have in the past. Export versions of the MiG-29 for non-Warsaw Pact nations for example possessed a downgraded radar, ECM and IFF.

 

[crobato]

They have in the past. Export versions of the MiG-29 for non-Warsaw Pact nations for example possessed a downgraded radar, ECM and IFF.

That does not answer the question. The question is whether they are doing it now. As a matter of fact, they don't. MiG-29s exported to Malaysia back in the late nineties for example, had R-77 capability which only a few Russian MiG-29s had.

 

[challenge]

I don't think Russia is in a position to downgrade their equipment for export purposes, like the US does.

according to air interational, a downgraded version of SU-30MK are exported to China . In fact China made complain to Russia and threaten to stop purchasing weapon from russia .

 

[crobato]

according to air interational, a downgraded version of SU-30MK are exported to China . In fact China made complain to Russia and threaten to stop purchasing weapon from russia .

The Su-30MKK is not as advanced as the Su-30MKI but China wanted a more technologically conservative plane because the MKK can be delivered much faster and sooner, and the MKI type was certainly far from mature at that time the decision (in 1999) was made.

But at the time of delivery, the Su-30MKK was still the most advanced Russian aircraft that saw operational service, and in fact, it was the first operational Russian aircraft that fits the modern definition of multirole capability.

 

[Sczepan]

my 5 cent - downgraded or not is only a question of price ... and at least to me it seems, that China don't need complete russians capability, because they are a lot of chinese equip. which are in the same class like the russians play.
So there is no need for the russian staff.

 

[tphuang]

Just talks about as part of the 973 project, they are developing stealthy composite materials for J-10 and Z-10. Also talks about the advancement in other composite material development.

Edited, this next part is interesting, looks like a new type of cockpit, I wonder if it will be used on future variants of J-10.

 

[tphuang]

I think this was posted a while back, but I never got the official link for it, but I found it now

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国产重点型号飞机结构设计图即将完成
　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　 发布时间：2007-4-27

　　“晓看红湿处，花重锦官城”。激战在重点型号发图现场的一航成都所设计员们却无暇顾及这宜人春色。

　　“3月底完成长线数控件设计发图！”,“4月底完成所有结构设计发图！”

　　这是1月下旬确立的重点型号发图目标，是重点型号任务今年的一个重大节点。时间紧迫、形势逼人！当被问及能否按时完成发图任务时，设计员们异口同声地回答：“我们有信心！”

　　信心，在困难面前坚定

　　重点型号发图的困难主要在四个方面：技术难度大、协调量大、时间紧工作量大及多型号多任务并行。

　　重点型号外形布局变化大，但又要保证主要结构交点和设备接口不变，保证其他专业的延续性，尽量将全机的改动保持到最小。这无疑增加了难度。

　　涉及专业多，必然协调量大。总体专业在发图过程中，除了按有关总体控制文件严格监控飞机的总体技术状态外，还要积极配合结构和系统专业发图，及时协调处理各种技术问题。而前机身专业协调量尤为突出。前机身是机上设备主要的安装部位，又是操纵全机的驾驶员座舱所在位置，几乎与全机所有专业都有协调关系。

　　按计划，发图时间只有两个月。以前机身专业为例，全组13人，人均图量约为3包图纸(每包有几百个A4图)。时间之紧，工作量之大可想而知。许多设计人员在承担重点型号发图任务的同时，也承担了其他项目工作。怎样使各项工作齐头并进按时完成，也是摆在大家面前的一道难题。

　　这些困难犹如四座大山横亘在前。一航成都所的设计人员们积极想方设法寻找对策，确保发图任务按时完成。

　　措施，让大家更加从容

　　一航成都所从上到下总动员，在思想上统一认识，制定切实措施，让大家能够从容地应对困难，使发图工作稳步推进。

　　所长杨伟在职代会上强调，一定要确保重点型号任务完成。党委书记戴亚隆号召全所党员，完成重点型号任务，以优异成绩迎接党的十七大胜利召开。所工会围绕重点型号发图在全所范围开展劳动竞赛，比进度、比质量、比创新、比服务、比协作精神。在每周一次的总师工作例会上，都对发图进程的重大问题进行汇集、讨论、决策。分管的副总师张继高经常深入一线，组织协调。

　　科研管理部通过P3E项目管理平台，实施项目管理流程的优化，进一步明确职责，加强信息的沟通、反馈、跟踪和协调调度。发图目标下达后，相关研究室立即召开组长和技术骨干协调会，请大家提建议，集思广益。

　　总体专业在发图过程中定期清理技术状态，及时扫清发图障碍。每周清理《发图调度进展情况》，总体专业主动与有关专业进行协调，及时归零。总体专业不放过一丝质量问题，要求每个组员认真积极地配合工作。他们精心安排，确保总体专业负责的生产图、技术条件的质量。在组内任务繁重、人力资源十分紧张的情况下，“老中青”搭配，既锻炼了队伍，又确保发图质量及节点。

　　前机身专业对关键结构部位采取多方案优选、细化，组织组内、室内的讨论，同时请相关专业、厂里工艺人员先期介入，保证方案的可行及优化，为最后冲刺节省时间。他们不等不靠，主动出击，甚至为其他专业考虑方案；对一些迟迟不定的部位，先行发图，并做预留，在发图中再修改完善。组内经常进行技术交流，广泛讨论，尽量提高发图效率。

　　后机身专业则针对“多型号多任务并行”的情况，提前启动，在前期就做好了充分的准备——清理技术状态，制定了详细可靠的计划，调整了人力，尽量往前赶任务。

　　精神，在非常时期闪耀

　　结构室的夏银在完成份内任务的同时，还承担了他人分管的一些零件，并按时保质保量完成任务。他总爱说：“特殊时候特殊对待嘛。”

　　孙丽娟生病住院，出院第二天就正常上班，并与其他人一起加班发图。她说：“时间这么紧，我不能耽搁得太久了。”

　　邓章春、熊晓枫两人是刚进所的研究生，都新婚燕尔。他们没提休婚假，而是与全组人一道投入紧张的发图工作。

　　潘建东，这个去年才从上海调来、喜欢军机的小伙子，在原单位从来没有经历过“多型号多任务”。在同事们的帮助下，他很快进入角色，承担了一个框一个梁的设计任务，进展顺利。他把这归功于“关键是制定好计划，并严格遵守”。

　　吉芬除了承担重点型号发图工作外，还有另一项重大工作。开始发图以来，她的工作量比平时翻了一番。怎样做到两项工作都不误？吉芬说：“把每一点可以利用的时间利用起来，把两大项工作并行起来，确保型号研制的列车不在我手中耽误……”

　　日前，长线数控件设计发图已顺利完成，所有结构设计发图正在紧张进行。

　　图纸就是种子，在春天这个播种的季节，在“重点型号发图”的田野里，一航成都所的同志们辛勤耕耘、播种希望，并满怀信心收获胜利！

This is about in April, they got the design and blue prints of the the improved J-10 fighter. It's clear that this is referring to J-10 since they mentionned CAC and Yang Wei. Well, still waiting to see pictures of this modified version coming out.