New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang · Monday at 6:45 AM

Nevermore said:
BYD is considered the king of electric cars in China, but their high-end vehicles can hardly outsell even some new electric car companies, which shouldn't happen to a company with such a huge market share and technology. This is not a crazy comment, it's a worry for China's top electric car companies.

Nevermore said:
This is the sales data of BYD Fangchengbao. It can be seen that the sales of the two models in the RMB 240,000 to RMB 430,000 range are also mediocre.

It really isn't. If you don't know anything then stop wasting our time here. China has a very competitive market where companies like Li Auto, HW and several others got into the large SUV market at least 2 years ahead of BYD and Geely's "premium brands" are severely undercutting BYD on pricing.
BYD exploded from a company selling 400k per year to like 5.5 to 6 million this year, so it did that by focusing on mass market models first. It simply did not have the resources to expand both mass market and large SUV/Sedan market at the same time. It also did not engage in a mass marketing campaign or dealership expansion for its premium brands of FCB, YangWang and Denza.

While this was going on, Huawei spent a lot of money in building up dealer network for AITO brand + Mate 60 really against raised HW brand.

At the same time, Xiaomi created the model of the year in 2024 with Su7 and then the model of the year in 2025 in Yu7. Both extremely competitive products that displaced Tesla model 3 and Y. These are great things to be happening.

BYD exports are now the second highest amongst Chinese brands and those get huge margins. FCB and Denza models are going to be launched in large numbers in oversea market in Q3/Q4. Z9GT will be far more popular in Europe than in China. Bao5 will be more popular in Australia and other large empty countries than China. D9 is already overwhelmingly popular in ASEAN countries. We are going to get N8L, Tai7 and 2026 version of N7 soon. What is with the pessimism?

If anything BYD is actually losing far more share on the low end of the market because Geely keeps undercutting it in pricing.

CrazyHorse · Monday at 11:28 AM

sabiothailand said:
Has anyone seen any other videos on Bilibili or Weibo talking about the performance of the Xiaomi YU7? What range do they achieve?

I found an article talking about Xuaomi YU7's range being around 500 km despite marketed at 750 km. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

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It likely has to do with china’s testing regimen being geared towards stop and go traffic in major cities, while other methods like the EPAs or the Euro one having more highway driving conditions included.

supersnoop · Monday at 12:01 PM

Just to add regarding Luxury vehicles
Luxury segment is filled with ups and downs and takes a long term commitment
The Hyundai Genesis luxury brand was only launched in 2015 as a standalone brand, and before that as it's own car in 2008. The high end luxury aspirations could be traced even earlier to the Hyundai Equus in 1999.
The most successful launch in recent times is probably Toyota's Lexus, contrast with the moribund Acura brand of Honda. Nissan had a heyday with the Infiniti brand from the late 90's to mid 00's, but is now in deep trouble (but so is the rest of the company)

ThatNiceType055 · Monday at 12:09 PM

sabiothailand said:
Has anyone seen any other videos on Bilibili or Weibo talking about the performance of the Xiaomi YU7? What range do they achieve?

I found an article talking about Xuaomi YU7's range being around 500 km despite marketed at 750 km. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

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756km of range on a single charge for YU7 RWD version and 682km for YU7 MAX, according to Autohome.

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784km of range for YU7 RWD version, according to to Yiche.

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On highway, 652km of range for YU7 RWD version and 533km for YU7 MAX, according to to Dcar.

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A list of range by EVs on the same highway range test from Dcar.

ThatNiceType055 · Monday at 12:22 PM

sabiothailand said:
Has anyone seen any other videos on Bilibili or Weibo talking about the performance of the Xiaomi YU7? What range do they achieve?

I found an article talking about Xuaomi YU7's range being around 500 km despite marketed at 750 km. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

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Currently YU7 RWD has the longest range among Xiaomi EVs, while YU7 MAX if ordered with 21 inch wheels has the least range among Xiaomi EVs except for the SU7 ULTRA. Since YU7 MAX is top of the range, it is reasonable that more people choose 21 inch wheels over the 19 or 20 inch wheels.

Some other range tests:
YU7 MAX 510 km

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YU7 MAX 515 km

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YU7 MAX with five people in car 473km on highway averaging 130km/h

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This is the test mentioned in the article, YU7 MAX 492km. The same vlogger previously did range test for other cars, Onvo L60 resulting 321km, Model Y resulting 456km, Luxeed R7 resulting 460km, Zeeker 7x resulting 451km, new Model Y resulting 431km,

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Nevermore · Monday at 12:23 PM

tphuang said:
It really isn't. If you don't know anything then stop wasting our time here. China has a very competitive market where companies like Li Auto, HW and several others got into the large SUV market at least 2 years ahead of BYD and Geely's "premium brands" are severely undercutting BYD on pricing.
BYD exploded from a company selling 400k per year to like 5.5 to 6 million this year, so it did that by focusing on mass market models first. It simply did not have the resources to expand both mass market and large SUV/Sedan market at the same time. It also did not engage in a mass marketing campaign or dealership expansion for its premium brands of FCB, YangWang and Denza.

While this was going on, Huawei spent a lot of money in building up dealer network for AITO brand + Mate 60 really against raised HW brand.

At the same time, Xiaomi created the model of the year in 2024 with Su7 and then the model of the year in 2025 in Yu7. Both extremely competitive products that displaced Tesla model 3 and Y. These are great things to be happening.

BYD exports are now the second highest amongst Chinese brands and those get huge margins. FCB and Denza models are going to be launched in large numbers in oversea market in Q3/Q4. Z9GT will be far more popular in Europe than in China. Bao5 will be more popular in Australia and other large empty countries than China. D9 is already overwhelmingly popular in ASEAN countries. We are going to get N8L, Tai7 and 2026 version of N7 soon. What is with the pessimism?

If anything BYD is actually losing far more share on the low end of the market because Geely keeps undercutting it in pricing.

Calm down. BYD is a veteran automaker. It launched the BYD Tang, a large SUV, in 2015. It has rapidly upgraded its products during the electric vehicle boom after 2020. BYD is a company with technological and supply chain advantages. In recent years, it has released mid-to-high-end models at a very fast speed. However, it is hard to say that BYD's mid-to-high-end brands have gained a firm foothold in the market. In contrast, latecomers Huawei and Xiaomi have been able to quickly occupy the market and stabilize the mid-to-high-end models in the RMB 240,000 to RMB 600,000 market.

Nevermore · Monday at 12:43 PM

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Xiaomi's "Kunlun N3" camouflaged spy photos exposed, expected to be released at the end of this year or early next year
IT Home reported on July 21 that the current leaks indicate that Xiaomi's third car seems to be an extended-range medium-to-large SUV, targeting the family market, with a three-row 6-seat/7-seat layout, and is internally codenamed "Kunlun N3" (IT Home Note: SU7 is codenamed Modena, and YU7 is codenamed Le Mans).

Blogger @德卤爱开车 just released a spy photo of a Xiaomi Kunlun N3 camouflaged car on the road, located at the Xiaomi Beijing factory supercharging station. According to the time node, this new car is expected to be released at the end of this year or early next year.

As Xiaomi's first extended-range SUV, this new car will fill the gap in its hybrid products and form a complete matrix with SU7 (coupe) and YU7 (sports SUV).

There were rumors before that Xiaomi Kunlun platform may be divided into three versions like Ideal L7/8/9. The largest version has been tested on the road, with a length of about 5.3m. The authenticity cannot be confirmed for the time being.

4Runner · Monday at 12:48 PM

Nevermore said:
Calm down. BYD is a veteran automaker. It launched the BYD Tang, a large SUV, in 2015. It has rapidly upgraded its products during the electric vehicle boom after 2020. BYD is a company with technological and supply chain advantages. In recent years, it has released mid-to-high-end models at a very fast speed. However, it is hard to say that BYD's mid-to-high-end brands have gained a firm foothold in the market. In contrast, latecomers Huawei and Xiaomi have been able to quickly occupy the market and stabilize the mid-to-high-end models in the RMB 240,000 to RMB 600,000 market.

BYS's biggest advantages, at this juncture of China NEV market, are (1) first-mover advantage and (2) deep vertical integration. In the Chinese NEV ecosystem, BYD is not a standing-out technological power house, and its so-called supply-chain advantage is borne out of its massive scale. As time passes and China NEV eco-system matures, BYD's core advantages will only be its massive scale and first-mover established NEV brand.

In the luxury segment of 400k and 500k, HIMA in general and AITO in particular have already established an insurmountable lead, due to high barrier-to-entry core intelligent systems. And the early signs point it will likely succeed in ultra-luxury segment 900k with Maextro S800. Traditionally China annual sales of >500K cars of all types was around 300k units. Already AITO M9 (550K) is at a run-rate of 120K~150K per year, while AITO M8 (400K) is going over 200K units per year and Maextro S800 (1000K) is going over 50K units per year. In my book the luxury race in NEV is almost over because there is already an established player that surpasses BBA. BTW, Lexus is by far the most successful new luxury brand globally after BBA and is still considered a second-tier luxury brand in China.

The key event to watch is the coming regulatory approval of L3 commercial licenses. At this point there is already consensus in China that only HIMA can make it if that regulatory event happens within 2025. If the current trend continues into 2026, people are beginning to talk about potential market detriment for HIMA dominance in luxury NEV segments.

tphuang · Monday at 1:18 PM

Nevermore said:
Calm down. BYD is a veteran automaker. It launched the BYD Tang, a large SUV, in 2015. It has rapidly upgraded its products during the electric vehicle boom after 2020. BYD is a company with technological and supply chain advantages. In recent years, it has released mid-to-high-end models at a very fast speed. However, it is hard to say that BYD's mid-to-high-end brands have gained a firm foothold in the market. In contrast, latecomers Huawei and Xiaomi have been able to quickly occupy the market and stabilize the mid-to-high-end models in the RMB 240,000 to RMB 600,000 market.

BYD Tang is not a large SUV. Do a comparison of L7 to L9 to Tang. It is a medium sized SUV by the standard of current Chinese auto industry.

Before you continue here, you need to actually accept basic facts. Here is Tang dimension
4820/1950/1725mm wheelbase 2820

here is Li Auto L7
5050/1995/1740mm wheelbase 3005

Here is AITO M8
5190/1999/1795mm wheelbase 3105.

AITO M7
5020/1945/1775mm wheelbase 2820

These are factually different sized vehicles as SUVs.

Huawei is not a late comer. You may want to check out when L9, M9 and L7 and M7 all came out. BYD is the late comer in the larger SUV space. It did not have a 5m long SUV in mass market brand until Tang L just very recently. It did not have a 5m+ long SUV in Denza brand until N9 this year.

These are abject realities.

tphuang · Monday at 1:24 PM

4Runner said:
BYS's biggest advantages, at this juncture of China NEV market, are (1) first-mover advantage and (2) deep vertical integration. In the Chinese NEV ecosystem, BYD is not a standing-out technological power house, and its so-called supply-chain advantage is borne out of its massive scale. As time passes and China NEV eco-system matures, BYD's core advantages will only be its massive scale and first-mover established NEV brand.

In the luxury segment of 400k and 500k, HIMA in general and AITO in particular have already established an insurmountable lead, due to high barrier-to-entry core intelligent systems. And the early signs point it will likely succeed in ultra-luxury segment 900k with Maextro S800. Traditionally China annual sales of >500K cars of all types was around 300k units. Already AITO M9 (550K) is at a run-rate of 120K~150K per year, while AITO M8 (400K) is going over 200K units per year and Maextro S800 (1000K) is going over 50K units per year. In my book the luxury race in NEV is almost over because there is already an established player that surpasses BBA. BTW, Lexus is by far the most successful new luxury brand globally after BBA and is still considered a second-tier luxury brand in China.

The key event to watch is the coming regulatory approval of L3 commercial licenses. At this point there is already consensus in China that only HIMA can make it if that regulatory event happens within 2025. If the current trend continues into 2026, people are beginning to talk about potential market detriment for HIMA dominance in luxury NEV segments.

keep in mind there are differences between electrical tech vs AI tech. BYD is the industry standard in electrical tech. It was the first to get to something like E3.0 platform and first to get to DM5.0 level of PHEV efficiency, blade batteries, 1000kW charging, drone integration, 1500V SiC chips and such.

Where Huawei is ahead in is AI. That's where it is able to charge a premium. And also, it has a long standing brand recognition in China that a new player like BYD simply does not have.

Lexus is more successful than Audi in China.

Maestro S800 is not selling 50k this year. I have no idea what you are talking about. The only higher end Chinese luxury sedan that might get close to that is Su-7 Ultra based on the current sales trend and order book. And that has a much lower starting price than S800.

New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

General

CrazyHorse

Junior Member

supersnoop

Colonel

ThatNiceType055

Junior Member

ThatNiceType055

Junior Member

Nevermore

Junior Member

Nevermore

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4Runner

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tphuang

General

tphuang

General