New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tankphobia said:

The reluctant market for Australia in EV is understandable due to a multitude of factors relatively sparse charging infrastructure, small incentive from government compared to rest of world and also range anxiety due to vast distance between major cities. It should improve with the new government due to heavier emphasis on curbing our emissions and moving towards EVs seems to be a easy political win.

Ultimately even the cheapest EV in Australia is still more expensive than a Camry or Carolla hybrid, so unless some major changes occur I don't see the status quo changing much.

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EV sales were up 500% in Australia this year, to 3.1% of total sales. So things are changing, but slower and from a lower baseline than in Europe, China, USA. I think the combination of the new subsidies for EVs and the arrival of cheaper Chinese EVs, plus more offerings from established marques (Toyota, Volkswagen, etc.) will lead to healthy growth over the next few years. My guess is around 10% of new sales by 2025, neither too optimistic nor pessimistic...

I am currently in the apparently endless order queue for a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, but I will certainly be taking a close look at the MG4 when it arrives in Australia. I will follow BYD's journey with interest, but it first needs to establish itself as a brand here with proven record of reliability, support, etc. Really, MG itself is only just on that threshold for me, having built its reputation here over the past five years.

ZeEa5KPul said:

A bit OT from EVs but I hope new GWM offerings like these can make an impact in Australia

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It used to be an ironclad rule that Chinese fossils didn't come with engine displacements larger than 2.0 liters (for tax reasons), so imagine my surprise when I see this with a 3.0 liter V6 (and a very respectable one at that).

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Yes, with growing brand recognition and the array of new vehicles GWM have announced to bring here (Ora, Tank), I think they should be able to break into the Top 10 brands within a couple of years (finished 2022 in 13th position, though December 2022 was record 9th).

FairAndUnbiased said:

Huge advantages to going serial hybrid over parallel:

1. Combustion engine can run in the most efficient mode at all times with no regard for mechanical coupling with wheels. Typically mechanical coupling forces engine throttling when speed or load changes. Geely reported 40%+ efficiency which is equal to the top tier power stations.

2. Full direct electronic control over the wheels meaning both more precision and lighter weight of not needing a complex transmission and drivetrain system and no inefficiency from mechanical losses, friction, etc.

3. Reduce maintenance complexity by taking the possibility of drivetrain failure.

But also has the advantage of the raw power density of fossil fuels that regular EV doesn't have which is good for vehicles with range/load concerns, including military vehicles in the future.

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All of these are exactly why byd phev is killing ice cars. Going to pure electric control requires huge investment in different power and control chips that are not the expertise of legacy automakers. That's why when byd developed it's dual motor technology, it's so efficient and works so well in adversarial conditions. They were already getting 43% efficiency on their engine. This should increase even more in their new super dual motor drive that's coming out this year.

Sorry to add yet another post about Australia, but I need to correct my previous post. EV sales in Australia in 2022 only increased by 94% over 2021 levels: 33,410 sales against 2021's 17,243 sales. EV market share of 3.1% is accurate.

Hilariously, BYD Atto 3 comfortably outsold Hyundai's Ioniq 5 and Kia's EV6 combined, despite only launching in Q4. The latter pair got rave reviews from the press early in the year, featured in multiple advertisement campaigns on TV... Hyundai and Kia did everything except actually supply the vehicles! In any case BYD Atto 3 was the best-selling non-Tesla EV in Australia in 2022 with 2113 sales. A bit early to tell if that's just built-up demand that will settle down over time or.... something else.

ZeEa5KPul said:

A bit OT from EVs but I hope new GWM offerings like these can make an impact in Australia

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It used to be an ironclad rule that Chinese fossils didn't come with engine displacements larger than 2.0 liters (for tax reasons), so imagine my surprise when I see this with a 3.0 liter V6 (and a very respectable one at that).

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The Current 2.0 litre GWM's do not provide a comparable alternative to Toyota and Fords offering in that depart., hence the need for a gruntier model for the serious user. My family having bought bought Toyota and Ford pick ups for 30ys or so bought a GWM Cannon last year which I give about 6/10, but in no way is it good as a couple of 30yr old solid front axles HiLuxes we still have would have been when new.

Yangwang U8 external pictures:

ouch, this is the moment we've all been expecting. Big price cut by Tesla down to Seal/Han level for Model 3 and to Tang level for Model Y. Frankly, they've wait too long. Now that Seal has gained traction, it will dominate that 200 to 300k sedan segment with Han.

tphuang said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611174036759019520

ouch, this is the moment we've all been expecting. Big price cut by Tesla down to Seal/Han level for Model 3 and to Tang level for Model Y. Frankly, they've wait too long. Now that Seal has gained traction, it will dominate that 200 to 300k sedan segment with Han.

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This would enrage Tesla owners who bought early and only add to their reputation problems.

This is a good thread about the news and development of EVs, can people please exercise some discipline and avoid bringing on needless nationalism into every topic?

There's no need to express low effort nationalistic grievances in every thread.

B.I.B. said:

The Current 2.0 litre GWM's do not provide a comparable alternative to Toyota and Fords offering in that depart., hence the need for a gruntier model for the serious user. My family having bought bought Toyota and Ford pick ups for 30ys or so bought a GWM Cannon last year which I give about 6/10, but in no way is it good as a couple of 30yr old solid front axles HiLuxes we still have would have been when new.

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Have you compared it to the current Hilux, I drive a 3 year old Hilux 4WD and honestly for the money, it is not exactly unbreakable. The front disc brake has to be replaced about once every, the doors turn into a water tank after torrential rain, engine management computer had problem resulting in excessive smoke and the list goes on. The one thing I will give credit to and happy about after having driven other brands, it has good road holding.

supercat said:

Yangwang U8 external pictures:

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Sides and rear looks great, but those headlights just doesn't do it for me, same opinion on the U9 also.

BYD definitely has the best in class technology and safety but their car design are a acquired taste to say the least.

That being said, seal is gorgeous and I want it in Australia!