New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

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Why not make it permanent and save yourself the trouble. ;)

Exclusive-China's CATL slows battery investment plan for U.S., Mexico-sources​

By Reuters Staff
5 MIN READ

(Reuters) - Chinese battery giant CATL has slowed its planning for investment in battery plants in North America on concern that new U.S. rules on sourcing battery materials will drive costs higher, two people with knowledge of the matter said.



FILE PHOTO: The logo of Chinese battery maker CATL is seen among a display of batteries at an exhibition titled "Forging Ahead in the New Era" during an organised media tour ahead of the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, in Beijing, China October 12, 2022. REUTERS/Florence Lo
The world’s largest battery maker, which supplies one of every three electric vehicles, has been considering opening new plants in the United States and Mexico since earlier this year, Reuters reported previously.
The planned investment in northern Mexico, South Carolina or Kentucky would be part of an expansion for CATL beyond China, where it controls almost half of the battery market, and serve major automakers who are customers, including Ford and BMW, people with knowledge of the process have said.
But CATL executives have slowed the process of vetting sites for potential new plants in North America since late August when the United States imposed tough new restrictions on the sourcing of material used in EV batteries, two people, who spoke on condition they not be named, told Reuters.
CATL did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Executives from Volkswagen, BMW, and Hyundai have urged U.S. legislators to give automakers operating in the United States more time to meet the required battery sourcing targets to qualify for tax incentives.
But the shift by CATL represents the first known example of an automaker or major supplier rethinking an investment because of the new law, known as the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).
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Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, who was central to drafting the law, has said it was intended to drive companies to mine and process materials for batteries in North America and break the industry’s reliance on China.
The IRA requires automakers to have 50% of critical minerals used in EV batteries sourced from North America or U.S. allies by 2024, rising to 80% by the end of 2026.
CATL sees North America as a crucial market, the two people with knowledge of its planning said. But the new U.S. rules on sourcing battery materials had become a “banana peel” that have slowed the company’s investment plans, one said.
The rules would hike the costs of manufacturing batteries in the United States to a level higher than shipping them from China even if the U.S. government offers subsidies for CATL to build the plants, said a third person, who also asked not to be identified.
It was not immediately clear how much of a delay CATL was considering in any North American expansion or whether it could make other adjustments to its approach to narrow the cost gap.
China, led by CATL, dominates the EV battery supply chain, producing about 70% of battery cells made globally. It also has a dominant position in refining key materials including cobalt and manganese.
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On Wednesday, BMW announced a $1.7 billion investment to build EVs and high-voltage batteries in South Carolina. At the event to announce the investment, Zipse was critical of the new sourcing requirements, saying the “United States should have a regulation that is not entirely unrealistic.”
Envision AESC, a Chinese renewable energy group that acquired a Nissan Motor Co Ltd battery supplier already operating in the United States, will build a new battery plant in South Carolina to supply BMW, the companies said.
“We are not unduly concerned,” Envision said in a statement when asked about the company’s view of the battery sourcing requirements.
Hyundai Motor Co, which is set to break ground next week on a $5.5 billion EV plant in Georgia, also wants U.S. legislators to offer companies investing in the United States some type of waiver or a longer transition period.
Signed into law in August by U.S. President Joe Biden, the IRA contains incentives designed to help meet his administration’s goals of halving U.S. carbon emissions by 2030 and getting to net-zero emissions by 2050.
Under the $430 billion law, rules governing the current $7,500 EV tax credit aimed at persuading consumers to buy the vehicles will be replaced by incentives designed to bring more battery and EV manufacturing into the United States.
The U.S. Treasury is currently taking comments on how to implement the rules around the EV tax credits.
Because you do not stay away from one of the largest markets in the world and give your competitor a chance to catch up to your market share. Keep in mind that a lot of companies are not making decisions based on a law that may not stick around once the Republicans take over. It may not survive WTO challenge. As usual, the people that create these laws are motivated by one thing and not thinking about the big picture.

We will see how this goes. For a car that costs $40k to build, $7500 is a lot of money to save on the battery.

On top of this, you have to think about all the energy storage systems that will not be affected by this law. There is a lot of money to be made here. That's why there are already 2 Chinese battery companies announcing plans to build in North America.

Do you the US would block car chip to China to compete with Chinese EV?

Which kind of chips? There are the power and control chips that are needed for EVs. China is going through the largest ever expansion of that types of chips. There are also the car CPUs. Those chips are offered by Horizon Robotics as well as Cambrian and Black Sesame. If Nvidia gets cut off tomorrow, it really wouldn't be a big deal.
 

ansy1968

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Do you the US would block car chip to China to compete with Chinese EV?
Bro the US had given up on EV chips cause the threshold are not that high and the Chinese had the tool , expertise and ingenuity to accomplished such task, they focus on AI as they follow Eric Schmidt stupid recommendation....lol Man!!!! @Oldschool is proven right the Chinese are winning as EV cars needs hundred of chips to function, as the US are focus on Avant Garde chip on niche market, we The Chinese will flood the world with daily applicable chip that the world needs...lol the Mao concept strategy “encircling the cities from the countryside,”
 

ansy1968

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Because you do not stay away from one of the largest markets in the world and give your competitor a chance to catch up to your market share. Keep in mind that a lot of companies are not making decisions based on a law that may not stick around once the Republicans take over. It may not survive WTO challenge. As usual, the people that create these laws are motivated by one thing and not thinking about the big picture.

We will see how this goes. For a car that costs $40k to build, $7500 is a lot of money to save on the battery.

On top of this, you have to think about all the energy storage systems that will not be affected by this law. There is a lot of money to be made here. That's why there are already 2 Chinese battery companies announcing plans to build in North America.
Sir I'm seeing a Huawei type action by banning them in the future and seizing its factory so why bother? the American are still hesitant to go EV anyway with a strong oil and Legacy Car lobby, the size of the market are purely hype and more of a projection as an immense economic category 5 downturn are heading their way....lol The money are better spend in other regions like Brazil, Indonesia and Turkey.

With geopolitics influencing economic policy, Chinese company will never invest in the US as McCarthyism is on the rise. Soon the Collective West will form a wall to prevent anything Chinese to enter their market as the US onshore and consolidate its industry at the expense of its allies and become an Arsenal of Democracy. The end Goal of WEF reset with predetermined role for the Chinese and the Russian as their laborer and extraction of resources. ;)
 

tphuang

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This is probably the biggest game changer for mass adoption of EVs. If they can get Sodium ion batteries in the density level as current LFP technology, then you can have viable sodium ion battery packs (especially if you use structural pack) for cheaper EVs.

I do hope BYD will get into this game also. Especially for energy storage, sodium ion batteries are perfect.
 

tphuang

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More wins for China Inc.
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Sono Motors will be building their new EV with solar panel power and BYD batteries.

BYD showcased not just its cars, but also its batteries and 8-in-1 electric motor this week at the Paris auto show. BYD is looking to take over the new energy revolution.
Look at this, BYD is not looking to be a car company. It's looking to power your daily life.

Only 30% of BYD complaints are about its quality control. Most of it is with long wait time on deliveries and 4S store service.

Looks like the first batch of K-8 buses have arrived for delivery in Japan

Electric bus K-9 is arriving for delivery in Argentina in the C40 World Mayors summit
 

tphuang

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There's now persistent rumors on Chinese social media that Wang Chunfu and Findream engineers appeared at FAW Hongqi and FAW VW Audi research center to see blade battery and DM-i motor at work. FAW VW Audi will be using DM-i/DM-p technology in 2023. This is on top of FAW Toyota using BYD battery/electic motor on their new BZ-3 model. FAW is all in with BYD motor technology.

10 days ago, I had posted this link that showed FinDream was in a deal to build 45 GWh factory for FAW for their Hongqi branded cars.
#3,340

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This is a good article about how BYD looks at smart driving. Wang Chunfu is a firm believer that BYD must develop the chip, domain controller, control chips, the OS and the algorithm behind smart driving.

Funny, it said that BYD tried to get the technology in 2018 from Huawei, but HW wouldn't share it (makes sense), so it turned to Bosch for L2 driving technology. The self driving technology from Bosch/Mobileye were black box that are invisible to BYD. As such, it decided to do its own development.

BYD is partnering with Momenta and Horizon Robotics to not fall behind the market, but still insistent on development all of its own technology. BYD believes that XPeng is behind the self driving technology of the more advanced tech firms. It's not possible to develop its own self driving software to same level as the market leader. As such, it will develop all the core hardware technology and use its market share to force tech companies to cooperate and hand over their technology.


My tweet thread on this.
BYD is absolute savage.
 
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tphuang

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And it has finally happened as we predicted. Tesla is dropping prices in China.
265.9k for baseline model 3 and 288.9k for baseline model y.

For Model
Rear-Wheel Drive, -28k
All-Wheel Drive, Long Range, -37k
All-Wheel Drive, Performance, -20k

To put things in perspective, the baseline BYD seal model is 209.8k

I think this + shorter wait time, will increase Tesla sales in China, but they still do need more models.

One thing I read today is quite interesting. BYD is impressed that Tesla can make 15k just on the FSD package. Crazy right? Just the software part. I can tell you that I paid 12k and it's not worth it.

But BYD wants to get into this game and make that extra cash. As such, why it is finally going fully into L4 ADAS.

Also, we know by now that BYD is building its second PV factory in Uzbekistan. I keep hearing that China Inc's appearance at Paris Motor Show really alarmed Macron. He is concerned that French automakers will get wiped out.

I would be very surprised if the Europeans do not put a 10 to 20% tariff on imports from China. As such, BYD will be busy exporting cars from its factory at Uzebekistan to Europe. IMO, that's the purpose of that plant for the immediate future. Long term, I think they will have to build multiple factories in Europe across several countries that will not only assemble cars, but also supply batteries, chips and motor technology to other automakers.
 
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