New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
"Moving forward, the real action is at the next level of EV battery development. And that’s solid-state batteries, for which we have not yet ceded development to the Chinese. It’s the best way to preserve our auto industry for the future."
Good luck with that. The market for EVs and battery storage in the West is a fraction of that in China.
Even if the West develops solid-state batteries with small scale production the Chinese will move past them when it gets to mass production status.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member

CATL unveils new heavy commercial vehicle battery pack


Denza N7 City NOA almost goes nation wide.

I did twitter space with Glenn. Some good stuff here, especially what Taylor said.


I particularly enjoyed the anecdotes and some of the more nuanced takes on Chinese buying preferences, demographics, etc. I normally don't hear this kind of information in written media.
 

LuzinskiJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Speaking of Northvolt bankruptcy, much digital ink will be spelt and many pairs of panties twisted. Including the following article. The illustrative phrase from it: "... The US and Europe trail far behind. Their EV makers — aside from the mighty Tesla — look like awkward court jesters, fumbling in their efforts to catch up..."
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iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
Speaking of Northvolt bankruptcy, much digital ink will be spelt and many pairs of panties twisted. Including the following article. The illustrative phrase from it: "... The US and Europe trail far behind. Their EV makers — aside from the mighty Tesla — look like awkward court jesters, fumbling in their efforts to catch up..."
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The funny part about western auto strategy is because of Tesla, they're far more obsessed with pure BEVs, as opposed to PHEVs, than China is, while at the same time pure BEV is the one thing China has maximum dominance.

It's the same with eVTOLs, western companies like Lilium (now bankrupt), Archer and Joby all obsess over pure battery electric drive when it's Chinese eVTOL companies that will/already have exclusive access to semi-solid or full soid state batteries, western pure battery eVTOLs are already dead on arrival just from that single fact.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
The funny part about western auto strategy is because of Tesla, they're far more obsessed with pure BEVs, as opposed to PHEVs, than China is, while at the same time pure BEV is the one thing China has maximum dominance.

It's the same with eVTOLs, western companies like Lilium (now bankrupt), Archer and Joby all obsess over pure battery electric drive when it's Chinese eVTOL companies that will/already have exclusive access to semi-solid or full soid state batteries, western pure battery eVTOLs are already dead on arrival just from that single fact.
I'm not sure what you mean.

In US PHEVs often qualify for EV tax credits, and there are far more hybrid vehicesl than BEVs in general.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
The funny part about western auto strategy is because of Tesla, they're far more obsessed with pure BEVs, as opposed to PHEVs, than China is, while at the same time pure BEV is the one thing China has maximum dominance.

It's the same with eVTOLs, western companies like Lilium (now bankrupt), Archer and Joby all obsess over pure battery electric drive when it's Chinese eVTOL companies that will/already have exclusive access to semi-solid or full soid state batteries, western pure battery eVTOLs are already dead on arrival just from that single fact.
The problem with PHEVs are simple. They are expensive to manufacture. They solve 2 main problems (range anxiety and refueling time), both which have known solutions (better battery density, higher wattage charging), so most auto companies did not want to deal with this intermediate step.

GM had already developed the Volt, but abandoned it because it was cheaper in the long run to put more money into battery manufacturing.

Western auto manufacturers did not really take into consideration batteries from China becoming some political hot potato, they just assumed they would be treated like any other manufacturing component. Apple is probably importing more batteries from China per Wh than anyone else. Ford's Mach-E was already transitioning to CATL LFP batteries and getting ready to build a factory stateside. VW bought 25% of Gotion and was planning a US facility. Suddenly these components became a political issue when Chinese suppliers have already become a normal part of the stateside supply chain.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
I'm not sure what you mean.

In US PHEVs often qualify for EV tax credits, and there are far more hybrid vehicesl than BEVs in general.
citation needed
I don't believe there are more PHEVs than BEVs in the US
There's maybe a dozen models, and that includes the RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime which are super limited deliveries. The Wrangler 4xe is the bestselling PHEV and that is in the low tens of thousands, which is nothing compared to Model 3/Y.
Now you said only Hybrid the second time, so maybe you meant Toyota junk too
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
GM had already developed the Volt, but abandoned it because it was cheaper in the long run to put more money into battery manufacturing.

It wasn't just the long-run. Chevy Volt simply didn't sell enough vehicles to keep production running. This is ultimately why it was discontinued, the sales volume did not merit more investment into a redesign.

Western auto manufacturers did not really take into consideration batteries from China becoming some political hot potato, they just assumed they would be treated like any other manufacturing component. Apple is probably importing more batteries from China per Wh than anyone else. Ford's Mach-E was already transitioning to CATL LFP batteries and getting ready to build a factory stateside. VW bought 25% of Gotion and was planning a US facility. Suddenly these components became a political issue when Chinese suppliers have already become a normal part of the stateside supply chain.

It wasn't really that. US auto manufacturers did not expect two things;

A. That EV batteries would be so hard to build.
B. That Chinese car manufacturers would leapfrog them so fast. Listen to Ford's CEO. He didn't even know how good Chinese EVs were until a couple years ago.


citation needed
I don't believe there are more PHEVs than BEVs in the US
There's maybe a dozen models, and that includes the RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime which are super limited deliveries. The Wrangler 4xe is the bestselling PHEV and that is in the low tens of thousands, which is nothing compared to Model 3/Y.
Now you said only Hybrid the second time, so maybe you meant Toyota junk too

That's not what my I'm talking about. I'm talking about number of models for sale. There's over 30 PHEVs avaialble for sale in USA. If you include Hybrids, that number is even larger.

Ford alone has an Escape PHEV, a Maverick Hybrid, and a F-150 Hybrid, and they've announced more Hybrid models incoming.

By contrast, the only two pure BEVs Ford has in the plans is the F-150 and Mach-E.

GM walked back its pure-EV strategy in favor of PHEVs.

There's a bajillion Audi TFSI E models on sale, which are PHEVs. BMW eModels, also PHEVs (or Hybrids), Dodge Hornet, Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Wrangler, KIA and Hyundai has a PHEV for most of their regular model cars. Same for Mercedes.

If we want to count Japanese autos, large part of Lexus' line-up has PHEVs, Mitsubishi used to be nearly all PHEVs, and who knows what Nissan is even doing,

So no, by contrast, I'd say there's a lot of PHEVs and Hybrids out there. Tesla is basically hard-carrying the US EV industry by itself.
 
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