I'm thinking they have enough mechanized(or not) infantry to carry the MANPAD missiles.
New Chinese SPAAA?
- Thread starter MwRYum
- Start date
I'm thinking they have enough mechanized(or not) infantry to carry the MANPAD missiles.
MwRYum
Major
Buddy, you do know there's a world of difference between a "Mk1 Eyeball" (or a multiple of them) and integrated platform with radar, right?
Though to be fair MANPAD won't be so easily neutralized from a distance, than that of SPAAA with HARM or ATGM or something other precision munitions, and necessary information can - in theory - pass down the line to MANPAD teams via tactical network, but PLA is still at infancy in terms of such things, they ain't as well-developed, or battle-tested (hardware as to real-world tolerance, and the bandwidth available), as the US.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
35mm is nowhere near enough to tango with MBTs, even hopelessly outdated ones.
You are going to be relying on sheer luck to take out the sensors in one volley even if you get the drop on the MBT and fire first. With most modern MBTs having a hunter-killer set up with a gunner and commander sights, hoping to take both out in one burst before the MBT can retaliate is a long shot to put in politely.
It might work as a last ditch desperation move, but it is hardly something you would want to try if you had any other choice. With the prevalence of man portable ATGMs, there really shouldn't be many instances where you would even need to consider pitting one of these against any sort of armor, never mind MBTs.
It's not hard to imagine the PLA command would prefer to fire from 4 different locations rather than one vehicle, especially in engagement settings where there are a lot of obstacles, so how they organize their different assets depend on what kind of scenarios they are preparing for.
There's a tendency to instantly compare Chinese military to the US or other advanced western nations, but China probably never expects to confront these nations, at least not on foreign land, and they can certain expect network information on Chinese soil.
modern SPAA must able to detect, engage and shoot down high speed PGM.
during the iraqi and agfhanistan, USAF new gen. of designator -Sniper was able to engage and destroy iraqi and taliban ZSU-23-4 SPAA outside the range of 23mm cannon.
during operation enduring freedom, Sniper equip F-18 was able to track taliban AFV with out alerting
them.one particular scene shown in the TV,the two taliban BTR-60 and foot soldiers were engaging some sort of conference,when LGB hit home.
the new gen. of SPAA such as Pantsir-S1 uses phase array radar,since ESR has much higher track rate than conventional reflector radar,this gave Pantsir-S1 ability to engage high speed PGM.
during the iraqi and agfhanistan, USAF new gen. of designator -Sniper was able to engage and destroy iraqi and taliban ZSU-23-4 SPAA outside the range of 23mm cannon.
during operation enduring freedom, Sniper equip F-18 was able to track taliban AFV with out alerting
them.one particular scene shown in the TV,the two taliban BTR-60 and foot soldiers were engaging some sort of conference,when LGB hit home.
the new gen. of SPAA such as Pantsir-S1 uses phase array radar,since ESR has much higher track rate than conventional reflector radar,this gave Pantsir-S1 ability to engage high speed PGM.
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That is why SPAAA intend to have high rate of fire... A short burst of SPAAA hitting on MBT equal to probably more than a dozen rounds of 35mm shell landed on the tank. High rate of fire will also increase the hit probability. The MBT crew will probably survive the attack. But the sensor and gun will hardly capable of taking the damage of 35mm HE rounds. Gun and sensor knock out will make the MBT as good as useless.
Of cos, taking out armoury will most like just be a secondary mission under force or special circumstances. Primary role will still be anti-aircraft.
MwRYum
Major
The "secondary role" for a SPAAA unit would be "man-reaper" type, cutting down infantry and probably lightly armored vehicles, at the first sight of armored vehicles with anything from 100mm high velocity cannon onwards the only SOP is to "run", disengage ASAP, not to put down a burst from a distance to announce your location to the tank crew.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
If we assume a similar RoF as the Pantsir-S1 of 2,500 rpm per gun, I would expect well over a hundred hits for a 2 second burst. But the hit probability to take out both gunner and commander sights is still abysmally low as to make such a move effectively the same as a suicide attack.
Something else to consider is that to have have a chance to hit the gunner's sights, you need to be shooting head-on. Against a remotely capable MBT, there is pretty much no chance a SPAAA will ever get first shot.
There is no 'probably' about it. 35mm HE shells haven't a chance in hell of killing a remotely modern MBT from any angle.
You need to hit them first, and as pointed out above, the chances of that are pretty slim at best. What more, HE anti-aircraft shells will do next to nothing against MBTs, even armor piercing sabots will not have much of a chance unless you are shooting from directly above to hit the thinner top armor, but a SPAAA is hardly going to be packing anti-armor ammo as standard now is it?
As MwRYum already pointed out, the secondary role will be anti-infantry/light armor. You can use this to blast dug-in infantry out of buildings just fine, but use it against anything with half serious armor plating and you are just wasting ammo at best, and playing out a death wish in most cases.
I do not know why you are so insistent on using this SPAAA for something it was never intended to do and is clearly no good at. If you want a tank dead, send a guy with a HJ8/9.
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Anyways, back on topic, and I have been pondering of why they haven't put missiles on these things.
Obviously, it could just be that this is a first block version, and that later models will have missiles, or that they simply chose not to install the missiles for exercises to pro-long the shelf life or even that the missile intended for this SPAAA are still in development.
But if they chose not to have missiles and go for a pure gun platform, then I think that would be because of the prey these things are intended to kill, which would be attack helos/CAS and cruise missiles/other PGMs.
Now, while having missile and gun would increase your kill probability against an unmanned target like a missile or bomb, it might actually prove counter-productive against manned platforms.
In this day and age, and going forwards, most military helos and fighters have 360 MAWS. That means the moment you fire off a missile, your target is probably going to know it is under attack and will be starting evasives.
Now, depending on range, it could be several seconds from when you start shooting your 35mm till when the shells arrive at where the target will be, since you will need to be leading at anything more than a kilometer away. However, if you are leading your shots and firing off missiles, there is a decent chance the target would have changed speed and vectors from detecting the missile launch, and your well aimed shells are now hitting empty space.
OTOH, if you just let off a burst of shells, chances are the MAWS would not have registered that as a missile and the target would realize it is under attack until shells start hitting him.
Against unmanned platforms or enemy munitions, you have a dilemma in choosing mode of guidance. IR would allow passive engagement, but may not be effective or even viable against certain munitions, like cruise missiles or free-fall bombs since they would have such a low IR signature.
Radar would be more effective against low-IR targets, but as soon as you light up your targeting radar, you are alerting the target. With the range the 35mm can achieve, you will be leading most of the time, so the slightest change in speed or vector of the target can spoil your shot. If you tipped him off that you are targeting him with a radar lock, he is going to be a hard target to hit unless he is flying right at you and closes to under 1 km.
Sometimes less is more.