New Chinese Military Developments

ChinaSoldier

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

hi,

on the quality of armies the will to fight is paramount. look at ww2's example, the low countries armies (belgian+holland) gave up without even slowing down the wehrmacht, while chinese armies with much less equipment destroyed hundreds of thousands of Japanese troops. move on to korea, the only thing to stop PVA became US airpower, even so chinese advanced 300 km by war's end. move on to a recent example of dutch peacekeepers in bosnia, who let their safe camp become slaughtered by tiny serbia, the matter of determination shows through again and again.

south korea army today looks shiny but they have a historical problem. they themselves admit to losing 1 million troops to chinese during korean war. they along with the minor UN armies frequently failed to hold UN flanks. It is all the matter of determination and whether you can bring your savage skill to killing. look at how chinese soliders train today, there can be no doubt of the determination, bravery, and skill of chinese infantry. professional skill is important and chinese soldiers receive highly competitive training every day, but at the end of the day it's not like knowing tricks in a video game, it's about determination to risk yourself to the fight.

chinese maintains a portion of its army with modern equipment, but imagine even this minor portion is larger than the biggest european army today. there are more t99's than all the tanks in the british army, for example. So yeah, the combination of determination, bravery, historical success, and skillful savagery make chinese army, especially infantry but also tanks and aviation, the best in world if the war is fought on asia mainland. navy wise it's far inferior to usa but also the only realistic challenger in asia-pacific. there's also 2nd artillery but now we're going too much off topic. :nono:
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Let's get back to the 'supertank'.

Beginning with the armament, would the PLA be more likely to favor 140mm or 152mm?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Skywatcher is correct..Keep on the subject of a super tank.

bd popeye super moderator
 

ChinaSoldier

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

sorry for the off topic. but some people had it too much in their heads.

about gun size, remember weight of shell is diameter cubed. 152mm is out of question on the t99 chasis. 140mm is possible and i'd guess they have researched it. there is definitely a need for more penetration against frontal armor at greater distances. top attack methods can be defeated with reactive plates.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Well, personally I'd be inclined to think that the PLA would want a new chassis for their next MBT (having more glacis armor would be good, and optimized to actually take crew survival into consideration).

Still, a tank armed with a 140mm cannon is going to be lighter than any 152mm model, which would make it better for airlift, amphibious assaults and softer terrain.
 

ChinaSoldier

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

125mm is already too heavy for airlift (for china), amphibious assault, or china's rice paddies. I think the main issue is actually railroads and bridges.

it's a big misthinking to say PLA doesn't care about protecting its crew. the way PLA is different is it doesn't have to deal with the psychological desire to keep ammo away from you. what it cares about is the real survival value of the ammo bulkhead. it's not that the ammo won't blow up if hit, the question is, can the crew survive a penetration even if the ammo wasn't there? the western armies are sold on the iraq war images of t72's blowing up. but you have to ask if the crew could have survived such a devastating pentration from the DU sabots ANYWAY. The M1's survived well but it never had deep penetration from the lamed down export ammo iraq used.

there is some annectodal knowledge from china using the type63 light tank in vietnam. that tank is similar layout to type59 but very light at 21 tons only. china got many rpg hits on those tanks, but one statistic i saw was that out of 400 tanks used, they were *repaired from battle damage* 500 times. they did not blow up from rpg's.

in the type99 the ammo is stored low near the ground, it is a harder area to hit than in the high bulkheads. the design makes the tank smaller profile and actually more *mission survivable*. western tank add 15 tons of weight for the same armor thickness because the extra crew and bulky turret. For those 15 tons, all extra the logistical chain to push around that weight, the less mobility in soft terrain, you get less mission survival but only some psychological peace.
 
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nemo

Junior Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Actually, in Gulf War US did shoot their own disabled M1s with other M1,
and the shell failed to penetrate. So M1's protection is that good.

The reason T series tanks tend to explode is because of the extra ammo
which is stored in the compartment without protection, and the lack
of flash/fire suppressor. With a good flash/fire suppressor, there
may not be that much difference between the two ammo arrangement
in practice.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

In the long run, it'd probably be cheaper to design a tank with better crew survivability than having to continuously train new crews (especially if the PLA is serious about the digitalization of warfare).
 

maneatinghorse

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

hi,

south korea army today looks shiny but they have a historical problem. they themselves admit to losing 1 million troops to chinese during korean war. they along with the minor UN armies frequently failed to hold UN flanks. It is all the matter of determination and whether you can bring your savage skill to killing. look at how chinese soliders train today, there can be no doubt of the determination, bravery, and skill of chinese infantry. professional skill is important and chinese soldiers receive highly competitive training every day, but at the end of the day it's not like knowing tricks in a video game, it's about determination to risk yourself to the fight.

I don't mean to be rude, but I believe confirmed South Korean KIA was about 58,000 and MIA/POW was about 80,000. South Korea suffered most of these casaulties during the initial phases of the war, that is... before the PLA involvement.


It is infact the PLA that suffered the most number of casaulties during that war (even more than the North Koreans). US estimates that almost half a million PLA soldiers lost their lives on Korean soil, although the Red China's questionable records state about 150,000 lost their lives.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Self edited for being political.
 
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