My town is burning!

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wtlh

Junior Member
Kwaig, over the last coupl of days two things are happening that are going to reduce the violence (I hope and pray):

1st, citizens and shop owners are defending their own shops now.


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The guy on the right, he is holding an AKM underfolder I think. Wonder if that is automatic, is automatic weapons legal in Ferguson?
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
The guy on the right, he is holding an AKM underfolder I think. Wonder if that is automatic, is automatic weapons legal in Ferguson?

Most likely it's semi auto however a person with clean records can own fully automatic weapons just have to sign more forms and be in more databases is all.
As to the event itself, last night was much calmer. Most likely due to the snow and weather conditions than anything.
Of course now others are wanting to have their voices heard too. Yesterday about 75 or so folks walked down a Main Street blocking traffic etc from the 'transgendered' group claiming police brutality against them. They were pretty peaceful though.
What's interesting will be tomorrow with Black Friday shopping. I wonder if area stores especially those in or near ferguson will employ extra security.
It's very sad that in this day and age the racial divide is still alive and well and there is deep distrust among blacks and whites in this city. StL is an old city and most folks here are from here with deep historical roots. I've lived in many places in my life and I have to say StL is actually one of the more if not the most segregated towns in the US.
 

delft

Brigadier
A commentary from The Washington Post:
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Ferguson’s lawlessness is not a big surprise

By Harold Meyerson Opinion writer November 26 at 8:04 PM

Lawlessness happens when the law breaks down. That sounds like a tautology. It’s not.

The urban — and now, with Ferguson, suburban — riots of the past half-century have characteristically broken out only after the notion that we’re all equal before the law has been mocked by judicial verdicts or police practices that fairly scream that blacks are not the equals of whites — indeed, that they’re fair game for hyped-up, bigoted police. The Los Angeles riots of 1992, which I covered, didn’t break out when the videotape of four policemen beating the prone Rodney King was aired. They erupted when the cops, all evidence to the contrary, were found not guilty. The fires of Ferguson, Mo., blazed not when Michael Brown was killed but when a plainly biased county prosecutor announced that the grand jury he’d guided refused to indict Brown’s killer.

That jury may have had reasonable grounds for declining to bring an indictment. But that failure to indict came as a culmination of a string of unpunished killings, going back to Trayvon Martin’s, in which young black men were summarily gunned down by police or neighborhood-watch zealots.

When the law offers no recourse, a lawless response shouldn’t come as a surprise. Politically, such responses are usually counterproductive, providing fodder for those who favor discriminatory laws and policing. But when police departments routinely view young black men as an enemy population to be stopped, frisked, harassed, humiliated, beaten and occasionally shot, young black men can’t reasonably be expected to respect law enforcement. When drug laws incarcerate hundreds of thousands of young black men for nonviolent offenses — in clear contrast to the indifference with which police departments viewed the Prohibition violations of the white, urban poor of the 1920s, or the powder cocaine violations of the upper-middle class today — young black men may reasonably suspect that the laws criminalize skin color more than they do a banned substance. And when district attorneys and juries decline to indict or convict the police who kill young black men, even when audio or video evidence suggests the killing was, shall we say, discretionary, young black men might reasonably conclude the law provides them no protection from armed authorities run amok.

The lawlessness of Ferguson began, then, with the lawlessness of its discriminatory police practices, just as the lawlessness of the Watts riots of 1965 and the Rodney King riots of 1992 began with the discriminatory practices of the Los Angeles Police Department — in those days, a paramilitary force feared and loathed throughout the city’s black and Latino communities and beyond. In his classic “The Making of the President: 1960,” Theodore White referred in passing to the department as “among the most efficient, if the most cruel, in the nation.” But two decades after the 1992 riots, the LAPD has been substantially transformed — statutorily, demographically and behaviorally. Reforming the cops required federal monitoring, the constant pressure of civic elites and community organizations and the transformation of Los Angeles itself into a majority-minority city in which the political base of support for racist law enforcement was greatly diminished. Today, L.A. is a city where many cops actually look like the people in the neighborhoods they patrol and, most of the time, don’t treat those people as enemy aliens. Those people generally don’t treat the cops as enemy aliens, either.

Ferguson — a majority-black town with a police force that is almost entirely white — is past due for such a transformation as well. As in L.A., the federal government will have to step in to help create a department that understands what equal justice under the law means. As in L.A., the city’s minority voters will have to assert their majority status at the polls if they’re to change their police department into a force that doesn’t threaten them.

No department has yet found a way to completely screen out those cops who actually like to pose such threats. Police work attracts idealists, but it also attracts thugs; in some places, police work can turn idealists into thugs. Psychological screening and ongoing monitoring can diminish police brutality; so can video cameras that record the cops’ encounters. In a democracy, the legal monopoly on violence we accord the police requires the maximum possible accountability when the police employ violence. If we want the lawlessness of Ferguson to stop, we need to build a Ferguson, and an America, where law is enforced uniformly and where being young and black isn’t grounds for a frisk, an arrest or a sudden death.
 

Brumby

Major
There was nothing shameful about the Grand Jury's decision in the least.

A Grand Jury is made up of a cross section of everyday citizens. The prosecution sets them.

The Prosecution (meaning the people who wanted to convict Darren Wilson) then present almost all of the evidence.

They grand jury went over this evidence for weeks.

The evidence showed that Michael Brown robbed a store before the incident. His actions constituted a felony.

In that state of mind (having just strong armed rob a store), when confronted by the officer, who at first was not aware of the robbery, Brown profaned the officer, did not get out of the street as requested and kept walking. When the officer followed and repeated the request, Brown used his weight to prevent the officer from exiting his car, and then struggled with and struck the officer while he was in his car. He attempted to get the officer's weapon. The officer ultimately fired his weapon in the car in desperation, and Brown ran. Brown had committed another felon in assaulting the officer.

The witnesses and the forensics showed this was the case.

As the office then got the reports of the robbery and exited his vehicle as Brown departed, he gave chase and with his weapon drawn ordered Brown to stop. Brown turned and charged the officer. He did not ask him to "Not shoot." He did not fall to the ground with his hands up.

The forensics and witnesses all showed these events to be the case. And the Grand Jury deliberated on all of them.

Most of the witnesses were African American. The principle witness saying something different was Brown's accomplice in the robbery, who was walking with him. Darrion Johnson's story has changed, and it is prejudiced by his own actions that day. And the other witneses, and the forensics have shown it to be in very serious question.

The Grand Jury had five crimes they could have indicted Wilson on ranging from illegal use of force up to 1st degree murder. The evidence did not support any of those. They poured over that evidence for weeks. They new the ramifications and the gravity of the situation. If there wad a shred of a reason to indict him...they would have.

But they did not.

This was because the evidence did not support it...no more than it did in the Treyvon Martin case in Florida. The whole thing, in both cases, was an emotionally created situation where politicians and activists played on people's emotion and presented an emotional false narrative which the press picked up...before any investigation...which prejudiced many people's minds. People who never saw the evidence. It was done to demand action outside of the system.

But it does not work that way.

There was nothing shameful at all about what that Grand Jury did.

The shame here was that a very big and strong young man went wrong. He made very bad decisions, committed felonies, and then suffered the consequences of those actions. A life truly wasted. That is a shame...that is sad...that is devastating to the family...but it happened and the choices were his own.

At any time...in the store, in the first meeting with the officer, at the time the officer ordered him to stop...he could have made different choices that would have resulted in him not being shot. But he did not.

As it is, this thread is about Kwaig's reports of events. It is not about the activism, is it not about the the ideologies, and it is not about the politics, Please stop interjecting it.

Thanks.

The result of Grand jury is a testament to the fact that there was never a case against Wilson. It is a rarity that there was no indictment because statistically in grand jury cases , the indictment is in the 90's. The way it works is all the evidence is managed by the prosecution. In the Wilson case, the jury looked at all the evidence and there was no case even though the standard of indictment is lower in grand jury as opposed to trial i.e. probable cause vs. beyond reasonable doubt. Only those ignorant and prejudicial are making noise - they are truly the shameful ones.
 

Brumby

Major
The mayor of Ferguson and Lt. Governor Peter Kinder are rather certain that the Guv received a "word", from BHO or AT Gen Holder to keep the guard away from the protestors, maybe hoping that the protestors would heed the call for calm...

For whatever reason, even though the Governor had previously declared a "state of emergency" and activated the guard, he did not deploy the guard other than to key infrastructure sites to protect those sites. In hind site a real mistake?

I was watching Fox news yesterday on Hannity and the Mayor and Lt. Governor was interviewed and the obvious question why was the National Guard not deployed. The comeback, was that the Governor could not be reached and the word was that he was busy in session with the White House (Jalerie Varret). It is up to you to speculate the motive of The WH over this. However, the Lt. Governor has promised that there will be an investigation on the failure to act. We will have to see.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I was watching Fox news yesterday on Hannity and the Mayor and Lt. Governor was interviewed and the obvious question why was the National Guard not deployed. The comeback, was that the Governor could not be reached and the word was that he was busy in session with the White House (Jalerie Varret). It is up to you to speculate the motive of The WH over this. However, the Lt. Governor has promised that there will be an investigation on the failure to act. We will have to see.

Valerie Jarret bruda, you must be slippin, when you forget the pretty girls names???
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Kwaig, over the last coupl of days two things are happening that are going to reduce the violence (I hope and pray):

1st, citizens and shop owners are defending their own shops now.


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Those shops and stores are not being attacked, looted, or torched.

I hope and pray this will not become a "civil" war (war between civilians)!!!
 
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xiabonan

Junior Member
The last time the U.S. had a civil war it took years of fighting and 600,000 lives. It remains today the bloodiest war in U.S. history. more than 150 years have passed and the divide that it caused it still felt in the American society today.

That's what the National Guards for. To prevent such a tragedy from happening.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I wonder if those applauding the grand jury's decision would have the same reaction if a grand jury of 9 blacks and 3 whites decided to bring charges.

Somehow I get the impression that had that happened, many here would be bursting with outrage at the 'clear' race politics involved.

Like it or not, race relations is still a huge problem in America today, and in a great many cases for millions of Americans, the cards and rules truly are stacked overwhelming against you if you have a skin colour that isn't 'white'.

Case in point, the pictures being paraded about of those 'heroic' store owners brandishing rifles and other weapons. Ever notice that none of them are black?

I struggle to see how anyone cannot appreciate the inherent and manifest irony that a black child can get gunned down by police for playing with a toy gun in a park while at the same time a bunch of white guys all but get pats on the back from the police for openly carrying real guns in the middle of a riot.

As others have said, the Michael Brown case is the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

The key issue isn't so much the merits of this particular case, but rather the wider legal and social conditions that lead to many in racial minorities to simply loose faith in the justice system itself.

America really needs to take a long hard look at itself and try and deal with this very real problem. Because it isn't going away and grievances, real or imagined, are only piling up, adding fuel to the simmering fire.
 
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