My town is burning!

delft said:

Your remarks make me think of two episodes of long black out in New York City some forty years ago.
The first, in the sixties and which extended into Canada, was only remarkable for a peak in births three quarter of a year later:

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. From that wiki:


The second resulted in very considerable looting.

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It is worthwhile to ask why there was looting in NYC in 1977 and why there is looting now in Ferguson.

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Looting unfortunately is a very human thing to do because of our innate sin nature. When opportunity arises most people will unfortunately choose to 'get free things'. It's true in the US and true in probably 99% of the countries. Imagined if a cashier gives you back more change than you deserved or fiddling with your taxes etc. Imagine a row of stores with their doors wide opened and no workers or cops around anywhere. Most folks will most likely go inside and help themselves nevermind a partial breakdown in society and when chaos reigns.

That is the mob mentality and that is the looting mentality.

Even otherwise 'decent' folks especially young people will get caught up in that group mentality when they see the majority of folks do it and join in the foray. You have to be a person of an already solid moral compass to not do things like that. Unfortunately it seems that people these days are less 'moral' and are only law abiding because they are afraid of the consequences and not due to their own innate personal integrity.

Of course there are also many like that.

delft said:

Your remarks make me think of two episodes of long black out in New York City some forty years ago.
The first, in the sixties and which extended into Canada, was only remarkable for a peak in births three quarter of a year later:

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. From that wiki:


The second resulted in very considerable looting.

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It is worthwhile to ask why there was looting in NYC in 1977 and why there is looting now in Ferguson.

Click to expand...

Looters are just opportunistic criminals taking advantage of a chaotic situation. Population density, poverty (i.e. income etc) are all social factors contributing to the existence of these opportunistic criminals.

Same thing happened in London a couple of years ago, riot and looting took place in some of the poorest boroughs in London after police shot dead a suspected local gang member. Many shop fronts were smashed, with people carrying plasma TVs into their cars. Sad fact is: the only shops that seemed to have spared the looting are book shops.

This is a deep social problem, and has no overnight solutions.

The core symptom of the issue is that there are a significant section of the poor feel that they have almost zero chance of advance in their social economic status, gradually developing into a detachment from anything main stream and to a large extension the authorities (which leads and protects the mainstream)---a us and them mentality. I think there is also a prevalent negative notion being perceived and believed that they needed a lot of help, in that much of their problems are mainly caused by "people not caring or not helping enough". So looting in many cases are "justified" as taking back from the "unjust" society which has nothing to do with them. But of course, this is a cache 22 situation, without tasting success it is difficult to believe in the positive notion of one's future lies with him/her self. It becomes a self-feeding negative loop.

Long term solution is still economy and education. More jobs and more incentives for good school achievements are basically the bread and butter for such problem, you cannot solve it without the two.

Jeff Head said:

Kwaig, this was a set-up and trump up from the get go.

The President's comments tonight, while urging calm out of one side of his mouth, he also indicated that "anger is an understandable reaction," out of the other.

What? This man is making things worse...again.

The grand jury heard all the testimony. It no billed the officer for a reason. This thing was trumped up from the get go just like the hoodlum in Florida. The 18 year old was a thug who committed felony robbery and then assaulted the officer. Then, when the assaulted officer was able to get out of his car and tell the big thug to stop, the this huge 18 year old charged the officer, who then shot him.

My prayers are for the innocent, peaceful citizens of the area. May they be kept safe, and may Law Enforcement do their duty and detain/stop anyone who would try and subvert justice and riot and commit crimes over this.

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Yes, he was a thug, no doubt .. what Obama has been doing is shocking. What the police office is supposed to do when get attacked by a thug (no stop after warning)? ... We all have to trust the system, we all (apart from grand jury) only know a bit here and there and with all emotion attached, the jury have read all the facts, etc ... so they know the whole picture

kwaigonegin said:

Looting unfortunately is a very human thing to do because of our innate sin nature. When opportunity arises most people will unfortunately choose to 'get free things'. It's true in the US and true in probably 99% of the countries. Imagined if a cashier gives you back more change than you deserved or fiddling with your taxes etc. Imagine a row of stores with their doors wide opened and no workers or cops around anywhere. Most folks will most likely go inside and help themselves nevermind a partial breakdown in society and when chaos reigns.

That is the mob mentality and that is the looting mentality.

Even otherwise 'decent' folks especially young people will get caught up in that group mentality when they see the majority of folks do it and join in the foray. You have to be a person of an already solid moral compass to not do things like that. Unfortunately it seems that people these days are less 'moral' and are only law abiding because they are afraid of the consequences and not due to their own innate personal integrity.

Of course there are also many like that.

Click to expand...

You will notice that most of these people who loot etc are also ones who does not really have a family, or has a broken family. It will be much unlikely to happen if you are happily married with two beautify children, for example.

In other words, the lack of responsibility is one of the key causes. Integrity comes from responsibility, responsibility to oneself, and more powerfully, responsibility to one's own family.

In the old days, most people get married and settle down in their early 20s, and learn how to become responsible from that day onwards.

It's perhaps quite ironic that some of the actions taken by the protesters were exactly what got Brown shot in the first place.

kwaigonegin said:

Looting unfortunately is a very human thing to do because of our innate sin nature. When opportunity arises most people will unfortunately choose to 'get free things'. It's true in the US and true in probably 99% of the countries. Imagined if a cashier gives you back more change than you deserved or fiddling with your taxes etc. Imagine a row of stores with their doors wide opened and no workers or cops around anywhere. Most folks will most likely go inside and help themselves nevermind a partial breakdown in society and when chaos reigns.

That is the mob mentality and that is the looting mentality.

Even otherwise 'decent' folks especially young people will get caught up in that group mentality when they see the majority of folks do it and join in the foray. You have to be a person of an already solid moral compass to not do things like that. Unfortunately it seems that people these days are less 'moral' and are only law abiding because they are afraid of the consequences and not due to their own innate personal integrity.

Of course there are also many like that.

Click to expand...

That doesn't explain the enormous amount of looting in NYC in 1977 compared with 1965 and 2003. IIRC around the same time New York was described as the Bad Apple because of financial trouble of the city organisation and increasing poverty in many parts of the city. What are the prospects for the people living in areas were looting occurs compared to those in other areas? Can a pattern be found or are matters too complex to find a pattern?

PanAsian said:

The Martin-Zimmerman case in Florida was also a lot more unjust with the shooter instigating a confrontation when nothing was happening otherwise.

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You are sadly mistaken.

Martin came up from behind Zimmerman and confronted him, then punched him, knocking him to the ground and was beating Zimmerman's head onto the ground when he noticed Zimmerman's concealed firearm, which he then grappled with Zimmerman for.

That's when he was shot.

Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch... he was doing what he was supposed to do. Seeing suspicious people and reporting them.

That case, like this one, was trumped up severely by people with an ideological agenda.

But when a Grand Jury, which is made up of ordinary citizens, looked at all the evidence there, like here, for weeks, the NO BILLED Zimmerman, just like they did Officer Wilson. They had lesser charges they could have indicted him on...but they did not. This means that the evidence was so utterly overwhelming to the innocent of both of these individuals, that they could not honestly or in good conscience charge them with anything...even with an abject threat...no, a promise...or rioting hanging over it all.

You want the real tragedy? In Chicago, scores of young black people are killed EVERY WEEKEND. These same ideologues and agitators ignore it. The media largely ignores it. Why...because it does not fit their agenda or narrative. So, in a place where a young black man...and even innocent children are 500 ties more likely to di...and over 96% of the time at the hands of criminal black gangs...the outrage is absent. The wall to wall coverage is absent. The President's outrage and that of Eric Holder is absent. But the young people and innocent bystanders continue to die week in and week out.

That's what is sad...tragic...and illustrative of what the agenda is.

Sorry ... /rant.

What we are witnessing in Ferguson is rule of the mob rather than rule of law. The Grand jury had look at the evidence and it is insufficient to indict. More importantly, Wilson’s testimony is corroborated by forensic evidence and I believe there were a number of independent ones conducted.

Every legal case is unique and we should look at the evidence as presented to the court. Sadly, the news seem to focus on every thing else and on opinions and not the specifics to the case. Fortunately The court system indict based on facts and not opinions. Only the mob act on opinions and opportunities, and this is what we are seeing. The system is not broken - the people are.

Jeff Head said:

You want the real tragedy? In Chicago, scores of young black people are killed EVERY WEEKEND. These same ideologues and agitators ignore it. The media largely ignores it. Why...because it does not fit their agenda or narrative. So, in a place where a young black man...and even innocent children are 500 ties more likely to di...and over 96% of the time at the hands of criminal black gangs...the outrage is absent. The wall to wall coverage is absent. The President's outrage and that of Eric Holder is absent. But the young people and innocent bystanders continue to die week in and week out.

That's what is sad...tragic...and illustrative of what the agenda is.

Sorry ... /rant.

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Jeff, I totally agree that this is a far greater tragedy, and should be inspiring far greater outrage.

Worse yet, according to this article, not only are the authorities failing to tackle the issue, they are actively trying to cover it up:



The Ferguson riots are not about Michael Brown, they're not even about the tragic deaths of black youths in general. They're about racial resentment, and these tragedies are just an excuse for violent outlet. While it is true that many people are all too willing to fan the flames, there could not have been a fire without smouldering embers.

solarz said:

Jeff, I totally agree that this is a far greater tragedy, and should be inspiring far greater outrage.

Worse yet, according to this article, not only are the authorities failing to tackle the issue, they are actively trying to cover it up:

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The Ferguson riots are not about Michael Brown, they're not even about the tragic deaths of black youths in general. They're about racial resentment, and these tragedies are just an excuse for violent outlet. While it is true that many people are all too willing to fan the flames, there could not have been a fire without smouldering embers.

Click to expand...

+1

Michael Brown is just the condensation point. For better or for worse, accurate or not, he has become the straw that broke the camel's back this time around.