Movies in General

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Honest trailer for Guardians of the Galaxy.

[video=youtube;dOyJqGtP-wU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOyJqGtP-wU#t=229[/video]
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I also just watched Interstellar during the weekend, and I think I have some answers to some of the plot holes Bltizo has raised.

The planet with 130% of the earth's gravity on surface with a smaller radius would require larger escape velocity than on earth.

I think it depends on how much smaller the radius is on the planet with 130% earth gravity.


I think the rocket booster sequence can be explained in a sensible manner that they wanted to conserve fuel for the entire mission as much as possible. So while the Ranger shuttles will be fully capable of lifting into space from Earth, fuel spent by the shuttle and thus of the mission cannot be replenished.



I think that was implied. Otherwise how did he become all familiar will all of the controls on the shuttles and the ship?

Was it implied? It seemed like one moment Cooper and Murph were meeting NASA for the first time, the next day he was trying to console Murphy that he'd come back, and then he just walked off into his truck and blasted off.



They are space reentry vehicles, have airtight pressure hull and structure and outer casing to repeatedly withstand the torture of reentry. Waterproofness is therefore a given, if it is not even waterproof how on earth can it be qualified as a mannable spacecraft.

But they even had a water flushing mechanism ;_;, as if they intended the design to be dropped into the ocean and then fly back up?
And being able to survive a wave like that and still function would be a challenge for any piece of marine engineering today, let alone a spacecraft.



I think the movie tried to paint a picture of Earth in its last days with Human material wealth in rapid decline. There was a lot of hint of Science and Engineering being neglected and underfunded by world governments, since people could barely feed themselves. That could be the reason for the "cheapness" seen various sections on the ship.

True, that could work I suppose.


The ship has artificial gravity (though centrifugal force) which is supposed to run constantly right from its first start, which minimises risk of floating particles. Under such artificial gravity, the crew should be able to eat normal food instead of relying on the toothpaste like stuff the contemporary astronauts have.

Yes, but there would still be long periods lacking artificial gravity...


Not really. They needed to find a habitable planet. And their main mission was to find the planet and populate it with gene seeds from Earth. The blackhole data was a sidetrack mission.

I mean in terms of the movie's plot.
That is to say, between their main mission and their side/accidental mission, the latter completed far more than the gene seeding. So it makes the gene seeding seem like a redundant task.



This for me was one of the major plot holes in the movie. And there isn't really a good fix. First of all the morse code idea just cannot work---see below. The blackboard idea may be more plausible if Cooper was also a theoretical physicist who studied the gravitational equations. But he isn't one, and the theorists need the raw data from the blackhole to fix some of their base hypothesises. This is most likely to be numerical data, and cannot be written down by equations. If he could, then he would have solved the gravitational equations himself.

Well, he could have simply written down the data on a blackboard, or maybe if he had a computer he could have made a txt document and typed up the data through gravity manipulation that way :/


It is also clear from the plot that the 5th dimensional beings cannot communicate with either Cooper or TARS. So they cannot have given the equation to Cooper. And if they could, then why bother with Cooper at all, can't they just contacted the professor Brand in his NASA office in the first place and given equation to him using the blackboard method?

I can appreciate the idea that the 5th dimensional beings can't directly communicate to Murph, or to Cooper and TARS.
I just can't appreciate how impractical they were. Couldn't they have created a tesseract for cooper that placed him in front of a laptop instead, where he could use gravity to create an email account and send the data off to Murph, possibly with a PS, saying "I'm in a tesseract and I've got blackhole data that is useful, be back soon, love dad"?

I mean obviously, that wouldn't be very poignant and lacks emotional punch. But the whole "bookshelf" thing just seems so contrived and artificial.


I think it was implied that they did send ships through the wormhole after Murph solved the equations. They also must have established contact with Brand on the inhabitable planet. And only after that did the migration start.

Wha? I thought at the end of the movie elderly Murph told Cooper that Brand was "still out there" implying she hadn't been found. Afterall, for Brand, only a day or so has passed since leaving the black hole's accretion disc.


I think the reason they did not send another expedition through the wormhole during all this 30 odd years after the Endurance left was somewhat also explained by the plot.

First reason is probably funding. NASA was pretty much a clandestine organisation at the time, and they probably gathered much of their approved resources for a one-shot Endurance mission. Another mission would take another several decades, if it is even approved---which makes it consistent with the 30-odd year time frame.

Secondly, Prof. Brand never really expected the Endurance mission to return. The most important part of the mission to him was the cargo of Earth gene seeds.

b-but, in the intervening years after Murph solved the gravity equation, they developed freaking O'neill cylinders! Ranger like shuttles were in every day use! Coudlnt' they have sent a shuttle or two (unmanned, even) through the wormhole to check things out?


For me the movie did a very good job on the wormhole, conveying the mathematical notion of a three-dimensional hole, which does not exists in our everyday life. This is far better than the type usually portrayed in Sci-fi, like that in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. It also managed to make the time paradox in the relativistic theory look and feel natural, which I am quite impressed with.

Yes, I thought that was quite well done as well.


The a big plot hole that I find they cannot get away with is that Cooper transmitted the entire TARS's blackhole data to Murph using MORSE CODE.

Just think about it, the contemporary particle collider experiments produce gigabytes, even terabytes of data (I have worked on some of those during my undergraduate days). MORSE CODE has a transmission speed of ONE CHARACTER/NUMBER (one ASCII character is 1 byte) per SEVERAL SECONDS. Even if the data is only 1 MB in size (a single MP3 song is about 3-5 MB, a single HR photo in compressed format is about 10MB), it would take well over 1000 hours (1456 hours if every character took 5 secs to transmit and note down) to transmit and record the data. That is 60 DAYS if Murph does it 24/7 no rest, no eating! And if the data is in a more likely region of several gigabytes or terabytes, then Murph and her offsprings would have been long died before the transmission could even reach halfway stage.

Also aren't they in hurry of leaving the place, as Murph has set fire to the corns and it is burning its way to the house? And for Cooper to remain in contact Murph and the watch has to remain inside her bedroom.

Yep, that's definitely a plot hole as well.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
Also aren't they in hurry of leaving the place, as Murph has set fire to the corns and it is burning its way to the house? And for Cooper to remain in contact Murph and the watch has to remain inside her bedroom.

They showed the watch twitching in Murph's office, so she could clearly take it out of the bedroom.

Of course that just opens up the question of why choose the watch at all, seeing as Cooper could manipulate objects outside of the bedroom. Then that brings us back to Blitzo's point about choosing an easier method of communication.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
Roberto Orci Out As STAR TREK 3 Director

Roberto Orci Out As STAR TREK 3 Director
It’s been reported that Roberto Orci, who was named as the director of the upcoming new STAR TREK film tentatively titled STAR TREK 3, has been removed from the project by Paramount Studios. Orci had been given the job following the departure of J.J. Abrams from the franchise. Orci has never director a feature film before buy was one of the primary screenwriters on the previous 2 films. It is currently believed that the STAR TREK 3 will still aim for a 2016 release date to coincide with the franchises 50th anniversary.

[video=youtube;ETQ4MVBjrI4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETQ4MVBjrI4[/video]
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Word is they're actually considering Edgar Wright to direct Star Trek 3. Wright directed Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, At World's End, and Scott Pilgrim. Problem is he left Marvel's Ant Man because according to actress Evangeline Lilly he wanted to do it much like his previous movies which apparently was too off from the MCU direction. Would he do the same to Star Trek 3? I heard Orci's script was about a chase to find what may have been the planet with time travel machine from City on the Edge of Forever where William Shatner was suppose to make an appearance. Then there's the online campaign to get Jonathan Frakes to direct who wants the job but admits chances are slim. It seems Star Trek is in some turmoil at Paramount. On the face of it the Abrams direction seems successful according to box office but it smells much like what's happening with Spider-Man over at Sony. If you've heard of the Sony hack attack it was revealed that Marvel was in negotiations with Sony over an appearance of Spider-Man in Captain American 3. Apparently talks broke down because Marvel didn't want Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man which Sony insisted. Spider-Man at Sony is rumored to be in trouble because the last one was so publicly despised. If Marvel chose an actor that was more favorable than Andrew Garfield, it would most certainly spell the doom for the Spider-Man franchise at Sony. They supposedly want a Star Trek movie for the 50th anniversary in 2016. They better find someone to direct fast.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Just came back from Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. It was fun and mostly action but I have to say it maybe the least out of all six movies. Like I complained about in Desolation of Smaug and how it abruptly ended back then... You really feel it here because the whole Smaug part in this movie feels like just an incident they come across like when they fought the giant spiders. The battle with Smaug should've happened at the end of the last movie.
 

wtlh

Junior Member
Just came back from Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. It was fun and mostly action but I have to say it maybe the least out of all six movies. Like I complained about in Desolation of Smaug and how it abruptly ended back then... You really feel it here because the whole Smaug part in this movie feels like just an incident they come across like when they fought the giant spiders. The battle with Smaug should've happened at the end of the last movie.


I have just watched it during the weekend too. And I agree with your assessment. I think for me the wow factor I got from the LoR movies are just no longer there. I think partly it was because I have seen it all in LoR, and there was nothing really that new; and partly it may be to do with the original story, as Hobbit was aimed for children, with a rather simple and linear story line and character lineup, whereas LoR is more aimed for adult with much expanded political and cultural scope etc. Also, I find there is a feeling that the movie was done in a hurry, or was not cut very well. Many scenes start and end abruptly.
 

wtlh

Junior Member
They showed the watch twitching in Murph's office, so she could clearly take it out of the bedroom.

Of course that just opens up the question of why choose the watch at all, seeing as Cooper could manipulate objects outside of the bedroom. Then that brings us back to Blitzo's point about choosing an easier method of communication.

Oh, I think I have missed that part! But I think this should count as an error in the movie. It is clear from the movie that in order to let Cooper work in the 4 dimensions, the 5-th dimensional being has created a infinite matrix of cubes of a finite 3D spacial range, with the matrix coordinates being the time. For various reasons they---as in the movie director---choose the finite 3D region to be Murph's bedroom, and it means the only point of contact between Cooper and Murph can only be in the bedroom.

Blitzo's keyboard idea is very good, certainly much faster than Morse code. However, typing is still too slow to realistically transmit all that data. A more plausible solution that just came to my mind would be for Cooper to first establish contact with Murph that he exists and has blackhole data. Then instruct Murph (and to an extend other scientists) to construct or get a device able to detect and record small vibrations (already exists today); and then ask TARS, instead of Cooper himself, to send the data across using vibrations which TARS's arm or body can hopefully generate (not difficult to include in the plot) that vibrates the detector's fork sensor.

===============

Of course it just has to be a watch, for the movie was directed by an artist, not a scientist. A watch has more sentimental value and all. HOWEVER, with the above proposed solution, the watch can still be used as the initial communication device between Cooper and Murph.
 

wtlh

Junior Member
Was it implied? It seemed like one moment Cooper and Murph were meeting NASA for the first time, the next day he was trying to console Murphy that he'd come back, and then he just walked off into his truck and blasted off.

Cooper was shown going from driving the truck to directly inside the shuttle during launch count down. So obviously a lot has been "cut". So it could be days, weeks or even months that has been cut. On the grand scheme of timing, this extra time can easily fit into the mission length, given that it took 2 years for them just to travel to the wormhole.

But they even had a water flushing mechanism ;_;, as if they intended the design to be dropped into e ocean and then fly back up? And being able to survive a wave like that and still function would be a challenge for any piece of marine engineering today, let alone a spacecraft.

Given that 1) it is a sci-fi movie situated at least a couple of decades or even centuries in the future; 2) their stated mission was to explore unknown planets and then come back to the mothership. I think it would not be too lenient to give the benefit of doubt that a) they have considered the possibility of shuttle landing in water; b) they have sufficient technology to make the shuttle sturdier than what we have today.

In fact the current re-entry landers are already designed to withstand the possibility of landing in the sea, and would survive the waves given it is fully pressurised and water/air tight, and has very tough structure. Of course the current landers don't have to take off again.

Yes, but there would still be long periods lacking artificial gravity...

Turning on the artificial gravity was the first thing they did when they went on board. And it has never been switched off ever since.

I mean in terms of the movie's plot.
That is to say, between their main mission and their side/accidental mission, the latter completed far more than the gene seeding. So it makes the gene seeding seem like a redundant task.

No one knows what would happen in the blackhole, and it was more or less regarded as a 100% suicide mission to enter the blackhole. So it makes perfect sense for the plot to not regard entering the blackhole as their main mission. And given the fact that they knew the likelihood of solving the gravitational problem was next to zero---given there are no known ways of getting data from the blackhole---and therefore likelihood of getting humans out of earth being next to zero, it is entirely plausible that gene seeding being considered as the most priority mission.

The success of the blackhole mission was an accident rather than expected---a suicide attempt gone wrong right. And therefore the gene seeding mission is by no means redundant.

That is what happens to most tasks associated with the discovery of unknown. Usually the most interesting results come from the most unexpected sources, but it does not mean the original plan and task was redundant. I would safely say that most PhD projects started with a plan that is VERY VERY different from what actually is written in the final thesis. More than often, some initially thought of insignificant side exercise turns into a major topic and core of your subsequent research.

Well, he could have simply written down the data on a blackboard, or maybe if he had a computer he could have made a txt document and typed up the data through gravity manipulation that way :/

I can appreciate the idea that the 5th dimensional beings can't directly communicate to Murph, or to Cooper and TARS.
I just can't appreciate how impractical they were. Couldn't they have created a tesseract for cooper that placed him in front of a laptop instead, where he could use gravity to create an email account and send the data off to Murph, possibly with a PS, saying "I'm in a tesseract and I've got blackhole data that is useful, be back soon, love dad"?

I mean obviously, that wouldn't be very poignant and lacks emotional punch. But the whole "bookshelf" thing just seems so contrived and artificial.

I agree.

Wha? I thought at the end of the movie elderly Murph told Cooper that Brand was "still out there" implying she hadn't been found. Afterall, for Brand, only a day or so has passed since leaving the black hole's accretion disc.

b-but, in the intervening years after Murph solved the gravity equation, they developed freaking O'neill cylinders! Ranger like shuttles were in every day use! Coudlnt' they have sent a shuttle or two (unmanned, even) through the wormhole to check things out?

Why would they start the main immigration process if they have no idea where the destination will be? Murph talking about Brand being "alone" could just mean that like Cooper, Brand is "alone" in the sense that everyone she knows had died a long time ago. Also how could Murph know that Brand is alone but not dead if she has not already made contact, and let them know her location and situation? At the end of the movie, you can see that on Murph's planet, there are a lot more structures built than just the initial camp, so we cannot rule out that people and advance parties have already arrived on the planet and doing preparation work for the immigrants.

Also, there is no sure way of telling that the scene of Murph burying her boyfriend happened after Cooper had seen Murph. It could have been a flash back of the time when Brand just arrived on the planet. In fact, this is more likely, given that it was another 40 odd years Earth time since Murph had solved the equations that Cooper was found near Saturn. The movie deliberately left it vague, to perpetrate the sense of Brand's loneliness to the audience---and to tell that Murph became "available" to Cooper.
 
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