Modern Main Battle Tanks ( MBT )

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
To cover your questions Scratch, among the Abrams tusk kit are a number of options including mounting a MK19 in the commanders station. Programmable ammo coming soon. There is or was also the option of mounting a fourth MG in the form of a remote turret with a M2A1.
Merkeva 1-3 used a manually operated 60mm breach loaded Mortar. 4 introduced a fully automated version. And finally nice ;)
 

Scratch

Captain
German Army have about 270 Léopard 2A6 in 6 bat of 44 each.

I think the current goal is 225 tanks in the future army, which really isn't that much, actually.


So then, were are we going with a more deployable expeditionary / medium tank at around 40-45t, TerraN?

Kinetic protection against 30mm rounds of all kinds from the front and at least 14,5mm all around, with cage armor add on also against basic RPG-7 types.
And then, to be usefull in higher intensity scenarios, all around protection against RPG-29V type and basic ATGMs via an APS with soft/hard-kill means?

Besides a 120 main gun I would propose a gun launched ATGM to out-range heavy IFVs other tanks. Or anything with intermediate caliber guns. And also some kind of automated small mortar, large GMG to subdue infantry threats and provide a safty buble for the vehicle.
All of that is going to be quite expensive. To the point were it pulls the whole conceot into question. For the wide range of operations were heavy combat vehicles aren't a real concern, but were a solid punch is still required against structures and light vehicles, I'm sometime thinking HESH rounds. Though these would need a rifled gun, unless their guided themselves, wich would drive up cost even more.
 

313230

New Member
Yes Merkava also has a missile round for its gun but can't all detailled ofc.

Leclerc can fire in movement up to 50 km/h the more fast maybe ?

Shells used by the best of these guns have a maximum initial velocity of 1750/1790 m by sec because this is " physical " limit permitted by the powder after for do best only electomagnetic gun but with what fire rate ?

For actual fire rate/mn i have some, Leclerc 12, K-2 15, Russian/Type 99 8, Challenger I/II 10 and many in general 8.

Leclerc use an auto fuel socket, good name in English ? there are no metal case as AUF1/155 mm do by GIAT former name/manufacturer before Nexter more easy for automatic reloads system.

Russian tanks or derivatives more lighter and more tiresome for crew less comfortable if a tank can be :D

1800mps is not the physical limit, 140mm gun achieved 2000mps before and propellant can achieve +2km, the problem is efficiency and OTOH, the best velocity for DU is 1500-1600 while W penetrator works best at 1700-2000, adding velocity from that point is not efficient, because remember, energy requirement raises with squared velocity. The muzzle velocity should increase a little to compensate the drag.

There are some techs that can raise gas velocity, by using lighter gas. The use of hydrogen can raise velocity to 5km/s, light gas gun can reach +10km/s in lab

Current techs can provide 360 against HEAT at very low weight, passive armor as low as 50kg/sqrm, 30cm in thickness can protect agasint 500mm shaped charge, and that tech is for sell from big company. Tech that is not for sell can be better. At this point, it is very easy to design light weight vehicle against shaped charge. So the only tech for reliable penetration of future armored vehicle is large caliber KE penetrator, this requires big gun or big missile. And even there are techs that can defeat KE penetrator at very low weight. If you combine all the state of the art techs, e.g. APS, the tank is quite indestructible.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Within the next decade we will be seeing rail gun technology adopted into main guns of MTB since the gas turbine generators can generate more than sufficient amount of electricity to power the guns.
With these guns armor will become less relevant since no matter how thick you make them the rail guns will rip right through it.
 

delft

Brigadier
Those are some really impressive Tanks. optimized with the latest armor and quite a potent L55 cannon which although long for urban combat the rest of the set up and kit options makes this a tank well suited for urban and . truly the back bone of Nato's tank forces. I wonder if the Dutch are going to snag a few?
The Dutch army has got rid of its tank units several years ago and the tanks were sold not to Indonesia ( concern about human rights in that country, so it bought German second hand tanks ) but to Finland.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I think the current goal is 225 tanks in the future army, which really isn't that much, actually.


So then, were are we going with a more deployable expeditionary / medium tank at around 40-45t, TerraN?

Kinetic protection against 30mm rounds of all kinds from the front and at least 14,5mm all around, with cage armor add on also against basic RPG-7 types.
And then, to be usefull in higher intensity scenarios, all around protection against RPG-29V type and basic ATGMs via an APS with soft/hard-kill means?

Besides a 120 main gun I would propose a gun launched ATGM to out-range heavy IFVs other tanks. Or anything with intermediate caliber guns. And also some kind of automated small mortar, large GMG to subdue infantry threats and provide a safty buble for the vehicle.
All of that is going to be quite expensive. To the point were it pulls the whole conceot into question. For the wide range of operations were heavy combat vehicles aren't a real concern, but were a solid punch is still required against structures and light vehicles, I'm sometime thinking HESH rounds. Though these would need a rifled gun, unless their guided themselves, wich would drive up cost even more.
Not every nation is going to adopt lighter tanks some are going to feel the need to maintain heavier tanks the Altay and K2 for example. South Korea feels the need of heavy MBT's as North Korea has something like 3-4x the number of MBT's mind you the North Korean MBT's are dated at best primarily T55's, Type 59's, T62's, T62 clones and A T62/T72/T90 hybrid but numbers count for something.

the Question Comes down to needs. for the US Who needs to move it's forces to the fight or Japan who more and more are facing tensions along there outer perimeter islands. are prime cases as is France and perhaps the UK. This I think will lead that any new tank and or IFV from these nation will need good protection but lighter weight well there existing MBT's will likely remain in service but at reduced numbers.
now in terms of protection remember the american M8 AGS back in the late 80's early 90's offered protection against 30mm cannon fire across the frontal arc in a 24.75 tons package. so a 35-45 ton tank could do alot better. one of the factors I see is that the Armor of the Tank and IFV and APC is becoming tailored. more and more the tank can grow lighter by moving the extra protection to "Bolt on" tiles. over all armor of future vehicle is becoming a less a built in and more a bolt on.
Along with Plates Cage or Slat armor will be a feature kept but some things to keep in mind.
1) Slat armor is nothing new or cutting edge the first generation was used by the Germans in WW2 in reaction to Hollow Charge weapons used by the Allies. Tandem Charge warheads for RPG's can work around the Era or Slat.
2) RPG's are common but dated more and more ATGM's are moving to the fore front, Look at Syria and Iraq where Groups whether AQ, ISIS,other islamist and non-islamist are widely using ATGM's widely. and many are top attack which is unprotected by ERA or Slat.
3) Slat although comparatively light weight takes up space due to stand off space needed for it's operation a Stryker ICV with slat cannot be loaded on a C130J it has to be Shipped with it unattached and then mounted on site.
This may push more for a "Comprehensive" approach combining Aplaques, Era, Slat and a APS Strategically over the vehicle. placing Slat over Engine exhaust and optics, Aplaques and Era over critical points on the hull and a integrated Soft and hard kill APS options. This will not be cheap but smarter in the long run as each system can be replaced and updated as needed mush easier then just the integrated armor of a tank. another feature that seems to be coming into vogue is remote or Unmanned Turrets. This offers a nice option for a number of reasons. by making the Turret unmanned in the event of a top attack ATGM the Turret my be disabled but the Crew is in the Hull this means you only really have to focus on armoring the hull as that's where all the most valuable mission needs are. The Human crew. this also means that the Driver, Commander Gunner and any other crew can share the Same NBC protection as opposed to needing a separate set for the driver vs the Turret.
Additionally I am thinking that more and more we are going to see Tanks and armored vehicles try and counter detection. as is simple RAM coatings and Thermal Mitigation techniques are already being integrated onto armor and Concepts like the Hybrid drive from BAE mean the vehicle can be more efficient, use smaller engines placed in smaller off center locations allowing more space in the hull for ammo, personal and gear. this can also mean easier conversion to a IFV.
speaking of which an ATGM from a Autocannon would demand a large calibre gun at least a 50mm like the ATOM IFV's 57mm that's going to be heavy take up space because of not just the cannon but a munitions system that can change from conventional AP, HE, to your guided rounds and weight for storing such. that''s not to say it's impossible the Russians BMP1 and BMP3 do it but with low velocity cannons the 73mm 2A28 Grom on the BMP1 and the 2A70 100mm rifled gun on the BMP3. mostly though I think the IFV standard will stay between 25-40mm autocannons with a number of Antitank Guided missiles in some form of launcher.

Within the next decade we will be seeing rail gun technology adopted into main guns of MTB since the gas turbine generators can generate more than sufficient amount of electricity to power the guns.
With these guns armor will become less relevant since no matter how thick you make them the rail guns will rip right through it.
I agree, but there is still one question I have. Tank Guns are not just used for Armor Piercing rounds. they are also used for guided missiles, Anti Personnel canister rounds and high explosive shells which still have to be proven on a railgun. there are also going to be conventional guns for some time and possibly alternative gun technologies. Coil guns are said to be being looked at for Mortar systems by DARPA. a ram accelerator round might equalize a conventional to rail gun battle. so could a combustion light-gas gun or a scram cannon or electrothermal-chemical technologies which could be more of a hybrid.
 
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Broccoli

Senior Member
Re: Russian military news thread

That would be a hard blow to Russia's military modernization. they would still have the Boomerang but thats a lightweight.

Depends, if Armata has a lot of problems then using it instead of working tank like T-90 would be much worse blow for military. I don't understand why they aren't designing new turret for the T-90... something like the Ukrainian T-84 Yatagan with a bustle autoader and blow out panels.

More info about the Yatagan.
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Black Shark

Junior Member
Re: Russian military news thread

Depends, if Armata has a lot of problems then using it instead of working tank like T-90 would be much worse blow for military. I don't understand why they aren't designing new turret for the T-90... something like the Ukrainian T-84 Yatagan with a bustle autoader and blow out panels.

More info about the Yatagan.
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Because T-90 is already very well protected unlike T-84 which have an exposed autoloader, where the T-72 and T-90's have armored and capsuled autoloaders making them even more protected than ammunition storage of Leopard 2, Challanger 2, Leclerc,Ariete or any other tank which store next to the driver several rounds of ammunition between 8-20 rounds. Why designing something unnecessary when it is already decided which path will be followed?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Russian military news thread

Depends, if Armata has a lot of problems then using it instead of working tank like T-90 would be much worse blow for military. I don't understand why they aren't designing new turret for the T-90... something like the Ukrainian T-84 Yatagan with a bustle autoader and blow out panels.

More info about the Yatagan.
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VJhH6wd.jpg
Armata is not just a MBT it's a family of Vehicles intended to replace a lot of older Russian military vehicles Including Bmp's, MLRS, Self Propelled Howitzers,recovery, engineering vehicle and Bridging.
 
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