Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: Latest PLAN Aircraft Carrier Info & Photos

Similarly, if carriers became much more vulnerable due to advances in weaponry (without matching advances in defense), and if UAVs with longer range began to replace manned-aircraft, then yes, carriers would be a lot less useful than they currently are, as a power-projection asset.

If UAV with longer range began to replace Manned-Aircraft.
then you will see a proliferation of Carriers. UAV carriers. as auto-land and take off UAVs will lower the cost of entry for carriers.

a UAV taking off carriers is still a UAV.

Battleship didn't get replaced by carriers, they got replaced by airpower.

carrier is just the manifestation of airpower on the ocean.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: Latest PLAN Aircraft Carrier Info & Photos

I agree 100%. In fact, the Carrier age is blossoming. More and more countries are building them.

The following page and the graphs and charts on that page m,ake it clear that the great naval thinkers in virtuall every nation with any appreciable navy are looking for any way they can to develop, build, and field aircraft carriers precisely because of their flexability and the long term nature of their utility.

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I predict in the near future. we will start to see pure UAV-carriers, similar to sea control ships or the sky hook concept
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coming in on their own.

Imagine a 15,000 ton highly automated ship based on civil Container ship technology. with a 200 man crew.
launching and recover 2 dozen X-47 sized UCAVs.
 

Jeff Head

General
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Re: Latest PLAN Aircraft Carrier Info & Photos

Imagine a 15,000 ton highly automated ship based on civil Container ship technology. with a 200 man crew.
launching and recover 2 dozen X-47 sized UCAVs.
The US has been looking at converting commercial container ships into Sea Control ships seriously for the last several years. The Maersk S-Conversion has been specifically discussed.

Here's what has been considered as a much cheaper, but almost as capable (in terms of operations) a vessel:

Maersk-SClass-Conversion.gif


I would personnaly take a little further and do this:

Maersk-SClass-FullConversion.gif


In fact, I have to say it...10 years ago I postulated the PLAN doing just that with large container ships and rapidly building 6-8 of them while they built two larger convetnional carriers that caught the west's attention and had them watching those, while they more secretly built the following class of converted container ships:

PLAN-CV-DFS-XDeck.jpg


That story was of course a part of my:

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Series of books.
 

delft

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

How do you integrate cats and traps into such a, compared with an ordinary carrier, lightly built converted container carrier?
 

tphuang

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

It just makes me think that the amount of work that would be required to make this possible would be cost prohibitive. How much reinforcement and extra protection and damage control would have to be built in for something like this?
 

Hendrik_2000

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

China launch a new data relay satellite
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The new data relay satellite "Tianlian I-02" heads towards the space at the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwest Sichuan Province, July 11, 2011. The satellite was launched on a Long March-3C carrier rocket at 11:41 p.m. (Beijing Time), said sources with the center. Developed by the China Academy of Space Technology under the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, the satellite is the country's second data relay satellite. China launched its first data relay satellite "Tianlian I-01" on April 25, 2008. The two satellites will form a network to offer data relay and measurement and control service for China's spacecrafts and planned space stations, according to the center. They will also be used to help perform the nation's first space docking, scheduled for the second half of 2011. China plans to launch Tiangong-1 and Shenzhou-8 spacecraft in the latter half of this year, and they will perform the nation's first space docking. Monday's launch is the 140th mission of China's Long March series of rockets.(Xinhua/Luo Xiaoguang)

China blasted off a new data relay satellite "Tianlian I-02" on Monday at the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwest Sichuan Province .

The satellite was launched on a Long March-3C carrier rocket at 11:41 p.m. (Beijing Time), said sources with the center.

Developed by the China Academy of Space Technology under the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, the satellite is the country's second data relay satellite.

China launched its first data relay satellite "Tianlian I-01" on April 25, 2008.
FM0oa.jpg


China ramps up military use of space with new satellites-report

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By Ben Blanchard

BEIJING, July 12 | Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:59pm EDT

(Reuters) - China is developing cutting-edge satellites that will allow it to project power far beyond its shores and deter the United States from using aircraft carriers in any future conflict over its rival Taiwan, a report said.

The piece in next month's Journal of Strategic Studies, a U.K.-published defence and security journal, runs at odds with China's stated opposition to the militarization of space.

But the report, an advance copy of which was obtained by Reuters, said that the rapid development of advanced reconnaissance satellites to enable China to track hostile forces in real time and guide ballistic missiles has become a key to the modernisation of its forces.

While the United States used to be unrivaled in this area, China is catching up fast, it added.

"China's constellation of satellites is transitioning from the limited ability to collect general strategic information, into a new era in which it will be able to support tactical operations as they happen," the report said.

"China may already be able to match the United States' ability to image a known, stationary target and will likely surpass it in the flurry of launches planned for the next two years."

Beijing has consistently denied it has anything other than peaceful plans for space and says its growing military spending and prowess are for defensive purposes and modernisation of outdated forces.

But with the recent unveiling of a stealth fighter, the expected launch of its first aircraft carriers and more aggressive posture over territorial disputes such as one in the South China Sea, Beijing has rattled nerves regionally and globally.

China's space program has come a long way since late leader Mao Zedong, who founded Communist China in 1949, lamented that the country could not even launch a potato into space.

Since then, it has launched men into orbit and brought them home, sent out its first lunar probe and begun longer-term programmes to explore Mars and establish a space station.

The successful missile "kill" of an old satellite in early 2007 represented a new level of ability for the Chinese military, and last year China successfully tested emerging technology aimed at destroying missiles in mid-air.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned earlier this year that advances by China's military in cyber and anti-satellite warfare technology could challenge the ability of U.S. forces to operate in the Pacific.

"STRATEGICALLY DISQUIETING"

China's need to use satellites to up its military game became apparent during the 1995-96 Taiwan Straits crisis, when the U.S. dispatched a carrier group after China menaced the self-ruled island with war games, the report said.

Beijing realised it could neither track nor respond to the U.S. ships. The incident also led China to realise it needed the means to keep Washington from using its navy to intervene in a war over Taiwan. Beijing regards the island as a rebel province.

"The most immediate and strategically disquieting application (of reconnaissance satellites) is a targeting and tracking capability in support of the anti-ship ballistic missile, which could hit U.S. carrier groups," the report said.

"But China's growing capability in space is not designed to support any single weapon; instead it is being developed as a dynamic system, applicable to other long-range platforms. With space as the backbone, China will be able to expand the range of its ability to apply force while preserving its policy of not establishing foreign military bases."

More broadly speaking, satellites will be able to help China project power.

"As China's capabilities grow, with space reconnaissance as an example, it will be increasingly hard to reconcile the rhetoric of a defensive posture and a more expansive capability." (Editing by Brian Rhoads and Yoko Nishikawa)
 
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Blitzo

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Who, if not China, has the capability to inflict the most damage to a US CVBG?

So taking a different spin on the subject of anti CVBG ops... Which country do you guys think will have the best chance in the world (apart from the US itself) to defeat potential US CVBGs, if not china?
Think geography, non nuclear air force and naval assets.

Russia maybe? they have a substantive bomber force and decent numbers of decent SSNs. Their focused on anti CVBG tactics during the cold war too.
Britan, or France?
India? (Brahmos lol >_>)

Out of the nations in the world currently I think maybe China has the best shot at defeating CVBGs with their ASBM, FACs, SSK/Ns, anti ship fighters, yeah? Of course that's because they have the doctrine, leading to the construction of these weapons.
Russia would come second?
 

bd popeye

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

^^^ Just because a country has excellent naval/military hardware does not mean they know how to use it. I really feel The PLAN needs to step up it's training. Those ships need to spend more time at sea training in real World scenarios.
 

Blitzo

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

^^^ Just because a country has excellent naval/military hardware does not mean they know how to use it. I really feel The PLAN needs to step up it's training. Those ships need to spend more time at sea training in real World scenarios.

I don't disagree, because more training is always good of course. But the modern ship crews of the PLAN have had pretty good exposure with their trips to aden and increased training in the westpac. We dont' have numbers for the PLAN's training exercises but for their current and projected short term roles I'm pretty content. I mean we've all heard how PLAN would have challenges operating far from home etc in aspects from UNREP to simply endurance back in 2008/9, but they seem to have demonstrated good capability in that area. At least we've not heard anything of massive bottlenecks, otherwise they wouldn't be going back for more year after year.
I think the PLAN "high end fleet" has reached a stage where its proficiency and training is "good enough" and they've got to the threshold where they can operate their ships with competence, but there's that extra last mile before they are masters of the trade. (I see similar parallels with eventual carrier ops. They'll be able to get the ropes of operating a cvbg in maybe ten years, but will take many more to perfect it, but the rate of "gain" in capability during the "perfection" stage will be less than the "initial" stage)

And I doubt the PLAN cannot proficiently operate their ships, given construction of multiple 054As, SSKs and 052Cs and having years of experience with them.

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But I don't quite see the relevance with my comparison/question because the competence of the navy overall does not reflect on the individual anti CVBG capabilities of a couuntries military.
Marginally better/more training can't make up for massive disprecancies in hardware, if the insinuation was that other countries militaries could conduct better anti CVBG attacks due to fantastically better training... it would take a stretch to believe that.
In the case of some countries (Russia) both aspects are not in top shape (limited flying hours, old aircraft).
 

bd popeye

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Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

And I doubt the PLAN cannot proficiently operate their ships, given construction of multiple 054As, SSKs and 052Cs and having years of experience with them.

Any navy can take their ships out to sea and "cut doughnuts" in the sea.. and still not know how to properly operate it's ship. I'm positive the PLAN has reached a level of proficiency.

However.. the way the PLAN transfers sailors off of ships every November is a puzzle to me. This breaks the continuity of proficiency in the operation of these ships.

if the insinuation was that other countries militaries could conduct better anti CVBG attacks due to fantastically better training... it would take a stretch to believe that.

Sailors need to be on a ship at sea doing their jobs in a real World situation in order to gain proficiency in said job. The ships systems need to be operated drill performed, equipment tested and checked again and again. That's what works.
 
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