Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

rhino123 · Nov 5, 2012

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos II

weig2000 said:
Does the so-called Chinese ASBM work at all? Does it even exist? Can the Chinese pull off such complex technologies at all, considering the Chinese is not particularly known for their innovation?

I beg to differ... and yes, I do not know if the ASBM really work or even exist, but I am one that will not look down on the CHinese for their innovation. From what I know and years of travel to and from China, the Chinese are very very innovative people.

Frankly, I don't see why the Chinese cannot pull off complex technologies and the other nations could, considering all the technology that had been created (or copy as many would dream of saying, whatever works here) and showcase in recent years. Plus may I remind anyone here, that whatever we saw on the net was what the CHinese would want us to see and think that is all... which is the same case in US, UK, Europe and whatever nation, no one are dumb enough to show case every single objects they have.

Vini_Vidi_Vici · Nov 5, 2012

Re: How do you sink a carrier

The whole thing on ASBM is dumb and baseless to began with.

I have followed the Chinese military fansites since 01-02. In the very beginning, the articles and discussions have been quite professional and fact based. However, since Sina and Tiexue (including other sites) military section became widespread, the contents quickly became ludicrous and were with lunacy.

Most of the contents were exaggerated or completely baseless. The titles of the threads sound crazy and shocking, but the contents are empty and baseless. Often the titles say some new weapons are revealed, but when you actually click it, you see CG pictures.

The most common titles are along the lines of "China did something something, US got scared witless", "China cleverly did something something, US yelled 'we are doomed'", "US high-ups saw this and that, shocked witless". They're pretty much wet dreams of fanboys.

Those are just discussion threads. When you go into the pic sections, it gets even worse. You constantly see titles along the line of "J11,12,13,14,15,16........40" (this was pre j-20 years) , type-99G, and Qin/Tang class nuclear subs. But when you click it, you see PS and CG pictures.

It's the exactly same BS with new weapon discussions. They make baseless and bold claims, saying China has cruise missiles that could hit US in one hour, large 10,000+ ton cruiser revealed (back in 08), death ray, laser gun, successfully developed WS15 and equip at end of year (back in 2007-08), china start building two 80,000+ ton nuclear carrier (thats a common one) and the infamous ASBM program.

The ASBM discussion begun in 02-03. It started off as just a discussion, just a guess. Somehow it got escalated and became widespread. But even so, people knew it was still just a proposal by a fanboy. However, by 07-08, somehow it turned into "official leak". People began to believe it's real. Even the US DoD use it in their white paper. This is absolutely ridiculous.

After visiting so many sites, I will only stick with this one. The ones in China are just a collection of bored men with imagination of a teenager's wetdream. Those in anti-China sites are just chauch-bags thinking China is still in the stone age.

Seriously to those Chinese members in this forum, think it thoroughly before you make claims. Things like China building two 80,000 ton plus nuclear carriers even before varyag was refitted, do you think it's possible? or that China has B2 class bomber as big as b52?

The worst part is when asked about the legitimacy of their claims, they can't back it up, so they just say it's "Chinese characteristics", as if they were Koeans and can do anything just by believing in the beloved paramount leader kim jung-un

Lion · Nov 5, 2012

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:
The whole thing on ASBM is dumb and baseless to began with.

I have followed the Chinese military fansites since 01-02. In the very beginning, the articles and discussions have been quite professional and fact based. However, since Sina and Tiexue (including other sites) military section became widespread, the contents quickly became ludicrous and were with lunacy.

Most of the contents were exaggerated or completely baseless. The titles of the threads sound crazy and shocking, but the contents are empty and baseless. Often the titles say some new weapons are revealed, but when you actually click it, you see CG pictures.

The most common titles are along the lines of "China did something something, US got scared witless", "China cleverly did something something, US yelled 'we are doomed'", "US high-ups saw this and that, shocked witless". They're pretty much wet dreams of fanboys.

Those are just discussion threads. When you go into the pic sections, it gets even worse. You constantly see titles along the line of "J11,12,13,14,15,16........40" (this was pre j-20 years) , type-99G, and Qin/Tang class nuclear subs. But when you click it, you see PS and CG pictures.

It's the exactly same BS with new weapon discussions. They make baseless and bold claims, saying China has cruise missiles that could hit US in one hour, large 10,000+ ton cruiser revealed (back in 08), death ray, laser gun, successfully developed WS15 and equip at end of year (back in 2007-08), china start building two 80,000+ ton nuclear carrier (thats a common one) and the infamous ASBM program.

The ASBM discussion begun in 02-03. It started off as just a discussion, just a guess. Somehow it got escalated and became widespread. But even so, people knew it was still just a proposal by a fanboy. However, by 07-08, somehow it turned into "official leak". People began to believe it's real. Even the US DoD use it in their white paper. This is absolutely ridiculous.

After visiting so many sites, I will only stick with this one. The ones in China are just a collection of bored men with imagination of a teenager's wetdream. Those in anti-China sites are just chauch-bags thinking China is still in the stone age.

Seriously to those Chinese members in this forum, think it thoroughly before you make claims. Things like China building two 80,000 ton plus nuclear carriers even before varyag was refitted, do you think it's possible? or that China has B2 class bomber as big as b52?

The worst part is when asked about the legitimacy of their claims, they can't back it up, so they just say it's "Chinese characteristics", as if they were Koeans and can do anything just by believing in the beloved paramount leader kim jung-un

Are you the one same person who say JF-17 is fundamentally same as a J-7?? How can we believe a person who say such thing in here? I bet you are even worst than those from sina and tiexue... You follow China military fansite since 01-02?? I can be very sure someone who indeed do that will never say JF-17 is fundamentally same as a J-7...

Clearly you are in error and all your logic regards to China military has zero credibility.

JsCh · Nov 5, 2012

Re: How do you sink a carrier

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:
The whole thing on ASBM is dumb and baseless to began with.

I find it hard to believe that Secretary Gates would be fooled by Sina and Tiexue! After he sort of got embarrassed by J-20 maiden flight, and then claimed IOC of DF-21D. The guy would have to be pretty sure of something.
It is very unusual for China to be asked such a question by top level official. So China sent a reply when PLA top general pay a visit to US.

somedude0101 · Nov 20, 2012

Re: How do you sink a carrier

JsCh said:
I find it hard to believe that Secretary Gates would be fooled by Sina and Tiexue! After he sort of got embarrassed by J-20 maiden flight, and then claimed IOC of DF-21D. The guy would have to be pretty sure of something.
It is very unusual for China to be asked such a question by top level official. So China sent a reply when PLA top general pay a visit to US.

China must be doing something to make the US Navy get worried, the threat from the DF-21D is real in the US Navy's eyes. They are doing far more upgrades to CVN-73 this year compared to last year, and are installing radar absorbing tiles all over it too. The purpose is to probably lower the carrier's RCS signature so terminal guidance of the DF-21D is no longer effective.

Hendrik_2000 · Nov 22, 2012

Re: How do you sink a carrier

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:
The whole thing on ASBM is dumb and baseless to began with.

I have followed the Chinese military fansites since 01-02. In the very beginning, the articles and discussions have been quite professional and fact based. However, since Sina and Tiexue (including other sites) military section became widespread, the contents quickly became ludicrous and were with lunacy.

Most of the contents were exaggerated or completely baseless. The titles of the threads sound crazy and shocking, but the contents are empty and baseless. Often the titles say some new weapons are revealed, but when you actually click it, you see CG pictures.

The most common titles are along the lines of "China did something something, US got scared witless", "China cleverly did something something, US yelled 'we are doomed'", "US high-ups saw this and that, shocked witless". They're pretty much wet dreams of fanboys.

Those are just discussion threads. When you go into the pic sections, it gets even worse. You constantly see titles along the line of "J11,12,13,14,15,16........40" (this was pre j-20 years) , type-99G, and Qin/Tang class nuclear subs. But when you click it, you see PS and CG pictures.

It's the exactly same BS with new weapon discussions. They make baseless and bold claims, saying China has cruise missiles that could hit US in one hour, large 10,000+ ton cruiser revealed (back in 08), death ray, laser gun, successfully developed WS15 and equip at end of year (back in 2007-08), china start building two 80,000+ ton nuclear carrier (thats a common one) and the infamous ASBM program.

The ASBM discussion begun in 02-03. It started off as just a discussion, just a guess. Somehow it got escalated and became widespread. But even so, people knew it was still just a proposal by a fanboy. However, by 07-08, somehow it turned into "official leak". People began to believe it's real. Even the US DoD use it in their white paper. This is absolutely ridiculous.

After visiting so many sites, I will only stick with this one. The ones in China are just a collection of bored men with imagination of a teenager's wetdream. Those in anti-China sites are just chauch-bags thinking China is still in the stone age.

Seriously to those Chinese members in this forum, think it thoroughly before you make claims. Things like China building two 80,000 ton plus nuclear carriers even before varyag was refitted, do you think it's possible? or that China has B2 class bomber as big as b52?

The worst part is when asked about the legitimacy of their claims, they can't back it up, so they just say it's "Chinese characteristics", as if they were Koeans and can do anything just by believing in the beloved paramount leader kim jung-un

Hold your horse and read this article by JDW and Anyone still doubting that China has the technology to hit a slow moving target they should go to Zhuhai and see it for themselves. Now this is export version I bet they have more potent version for their own use

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DF21 D will have similar technology like this
The CM-400AKG is a 400 kg solid-rocket-powered weapon that can be fitted with either a penetrator or blast/fragmentation warhead.. It is a fire-and-forget precision-guided weapon that can be fitted with several seeker options, which are understood to include an active radar seeker and an imaging infrared seeker with target-recognition (TR) capabilities. PAF sources say the missile can be pre-programmed with digital imagery for highly precise attacks against fixed sites in TR mode, but it can also be retargeted in flight by using the radar seeker option

CM-400AKG becomes Pakistan's 'carrier killer'

Robert Hewson, Zhuhai Section:

2012-Nov-16

Key Points; A new Chinese-developed very-high-speed missile has been fielded by the PAF.

The weapon has been described as the PAF's 'carrier killer'

Pakistan has fielded a new very-high-speed long-range air-launched missile that senior officers in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have described as "an aircraft carrier killer".

The CM-400AKG is a Mach 4 plus-capable air-to-surface weapon developed in China and now in service with JF-17 aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force. (Robert Hewson) The weapon, designated CM-400AKG, was designed and developed in China by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) and was revealed at Airshow China 2012, held in Zhuhai from 13-19 November.

The CM-400AKG is now part of the operational weapon set of the PAF's JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter. "This is a mature weapon that has been fully tested. It is not conceptual. It is in service," Air Commodore Mahmood Khalid, PAF JF-17 Deputy Project Director stated. "The CM-400AKG is a very high-speed missile that is very difficult to intercept. It hits the target at Mach 4 or above and its kinetic impact alone is enough to destroy any high-value target, like an aircraft carrier."

The CM-400AKG first appeared, briefly, in public at last year's Dubai Airshow, when a placard for the weapon was placed alongside a PAF JF-17 - and then removed. The weapon itself was not shown. At the time PAF personnel acknowledged it was a new Chinese-built air-to-surface stand-off missile. However, the initial assumption that it was a derivative of the C-802 anti-ship missile has proved to be very wide of the mark.

The CM-400AKG is a 400 kg solid-rocket-powered weapon that can be fitted with either a penetrator or blast/fragmentation warhead.. It is a fire-and-forget precision-guided weapon that can be fitted with several seeker options, which are understood to include an active radar seeker and an imaging infrared seeker with target-recognition (TR) capabilities. PAF sources say the missile can be pre-programmed with digital imagery for highly precise attacks against fixed sites in TR mode, but it can also be retargeted in flight by using the radar seeker option

The range of the CM-400AKG is understood to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).

Both CASIC and the PAF note that the CM-400AKG has been developed as a JF-17 weapon. The PAF currently has two squadrons of approximately 36 JF-17s operational. A further ten or eleven aircraft have been delivered and a third squadron will be established early next year.

JDW

bd popeye · Nov 22, 2012

newbie somedude0101 posted..

They are doing far more upgrades to CVN-73 this year compared to last year, and are installing radar absorbing tiles all over it too.

Where did you get that information? post a link please. In this forum you need to back up such statements with a factual link. Thanks..

And welcome to the forum.

.please read the forum rules before you proceed..

[h=3]FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read![/h]

escobar · Nov 23, 2012

There is a post on a french forum showing how the ASBM will adjust its course before the reentry blackout. It is called "Active Variation of Barycente". What does it means exactly??? The guy said it's from declassified R&D docs.

nemo · Nov 23, 2012

escobar said:
There is a post on a french forum showing how the ASBM will adjust its course before the reentry blackout. It is called "Active Variation of Barycente". What does it means exactly??? The guy said it's from declassified R&D docs.

seems like changing trajectory by changing center of mass (moving mass inside projectile to change center of mass).

FirstImpulse · Dec 5, 2012

nemo said:
seems like changing trajectory by changing center of mass (moving mass inside projectile to change center of mass).

That's one way to guide something without using fins. Very interesting. Would warhead size be reduced because of this mechanism using up useful space in the reentry cone?

Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

rhino123

Pencil Pusher

Vini_Vidi_Vici

Junior Member

Lion

Senior Member

JsCh

Junior Member

somedude0101

Just Hatched

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

escobar

Brigadier

nemo

Junior Member

FirstImpulse

New Member