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Lethe

Lethe

Captain
pmc said:
I dont think your understanding of Europe interms of geography and values is correct. Is France more European than Turkey? I dont think so. Ukrainian, Georgian, Balkans who are Europeans do they feel closer to France or Turkey?
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Why not ask the Greeks? Turkey and Russia are both states on the European periphery that can be included or excluded from the category according to context. Russia's claim to being European is arguably stronger than Turkey's given that most of Russia's population lies within the standard geographical demarcations of Europe while most of Turkey's population lies in Asia.

Is Turkey a great power? I think it aspires to be a great power, which as in the case of France (which believes it still is one) is meaningful in itself. We probably need another term (major power?) that clearly delineates nations such as Turkey and France both from the real great powers in the system (USA, China, perhaps Russia) and irrelevant nations such as my own.

pmc said:
once you settle who is European than decide who acts on behalf of Europe to make it great.
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This is not my conception of a great power. A great power has not subsumed its sense of national interest or civilizational identity beneath the either the umbrella of American hegemony, or supra-national institutions such as the EU. A great power actively seeks to shape its international environment with all the tools at its disposal (diplomatic, economic, and military) and in aggregate exercises sufficient power that it thereby plays a significant role in the international system.

TK3600 said:
Ok, if that is the case then UK also believe it is a great power and act as if it is.
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Disagree. The UK has fully submitted to American hegemony following the Suez crisis 1956 and its aftershocks. The UK aspires to support the Americans in whatever they do under the apprehension that the interests of the UK and the interests of America are typically one and the same. The structure of the UK's armed forces reflects this.
 
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BlackWindMnt

BlackWindMnt

Major
Registered Member
Just look at turkey and French as regional power they have some influence in their nearby region. Russia, China and the US are great powers they have pretty much secured their nearby region and can influence different regions.

I put French in the regional power because they are losing influence in the region they had influence in like Africa. And I put Russia in great power just because of their size resources, population diplomatic skill and winning influence in Latin America and Africa.
 
Temstar

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tea break in Guangzhou

I was just listening to Guancha and as with this video they were pointing to the fact that VDL coming on her own is actually pretty meaningful, sounds like sidelining her may be a coordinated plan between both the French and Chinese side.
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
KYli said:
US doesn't have universal health care but spent 18.3% of GDP on healthcare which is double the average OECD country. In the end of the day, the pharmacetical companies. health insurance companies and hospitals executives and doctors are making an outrageous amount of money on American health and life expectancy but the Congress has been bought and people have been brainwashed to stay silent.
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US healthcare system is horrible by any objective measure. They spend ~3 times more per capita to get much worse results. It is a prime example of how the US govt along with corporations rip the people off using ideological arguments.
You can find many really long posts by Americans about how 100% private healthcare is in line with founding principles. The people who write those are useful idiots unless they are in healthcare industry.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
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xxIARW7.jpg


Dude looks so much happier without his chaperon.
 
P

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
Lethe said:
Why not ask the Greeks?
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why Greeks have to decide who is European? Turkey role in Europe is certainly constrained when countries like France benefitted from Arab wealth and I am sure US also not support beyond certain limit.
Lethe said:
Turkey and Russia are both states on the European periphery that can be included or excluded from the category according to context. Russia's claim to being European is arguably stronger than Turkey's given that most of Russia's population lies within the standard geographical demarcations of Europe while most of Turkey's population lies in Asia.
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i can even claim Atlantic ocean to coast of France is North American as US Navy dominate Atlantic. Council of Europe is founding document of post world war European values order called Human rights and Turkey is part of it. Russia power comes from its Asian side not European. Those Tupolev bombers are built by Tartars and majority of missile launches are from Caspian. and the person sitting next to Putin when he driving around in Mariupol is Tartar. both destruction and and reconstruction of Ukraine new areas is managed by Tartars.
Lethe said:
Is Turkey a great power? I think it aspires to be a great power, which as in the case of France (which believes it still is one) is meaningful in itself. We probably need another term (major power?) that clearly delineates nations such as Turkey and France both from the real great powers in the system (USA, China, perhaps Russia) and irrelevant nations such as my own.
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Turkey is certainly greater power than France and UK combined when looked its actual application of its military power. Only Turkey arrived to save Qatar right under Pentagon nose which France and UK can never attempt. US still need world reserve currency to act militarily so it has to baby sit Arabs and there is that little country called Israel.
Lethe said:
This is not my conception of a great power. A great power has not subsumed its sense of national interest or civilizational identity beneath the either the umbrella of American hegemony, or supra-national institutions such as the EU. A great power actively seeks to shape its international environment with all the tools at its disposal (diplomatic, economic, and military) and in aggregate exercises sufficient power that it thereby plays a significant role in the international system.
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when VDL sit in front of Macron she spoke in English. France cannot shape environment in EU offices who are located either inside France or right next to it. just look closely the kind of violence that France is facing. i am not referring to pension reforms violence but on other occasion when cars in cities are burned down and thefts are through the roofs. it is certainly not characteristic of present day Europe.
 
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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Macron bringing some sincerity to the table?

On April 6, China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) and CMA CGM signed an agreement in Beijing to build 16 large container ships, worth more than 21 billion Yuan, setting a new record for the largest amount of money in container ships order in China's shipbuilding industry.

The order including twelve 15,000teu methanol dual-fuel powered large container ships and four 23,000teu LNG dual-fuel powered ULCC.

It is first time for CSSC to undertake a batch order for methanol fueled container ships.

It is understood that the 15,000teu methanol dual-fuel powered large container ships will be built by Jiangnan Shipyard and Dalian Shipbuilding Industry (DSIC) respectively. The ship is 366 meters long, 51 meters wide and 30.2 meters deep, and can carry 156,000 tons of cargo.

Four 23,000 teu LNG dual-fuel powered ULCC will be built by Hudong-Zhonghua of CSSC. The ship has a length of 399.9 meters, a width of 61.3 meters, a depth of 33.5 meters in the cargo hold and a deck area of 23,978 square meters, equivalent to 3.5 standard football fields. The ship can hold 23,000teu containers and can carry 220,000 tons of cargo.

The ship adopts the world's largest dual-fuel powered main engine W12X92DF developed and manufactured by WinGD.

According to statistics, in the past 10 years, CMA CGM has ordered and built more than 70 green container ships in CSSC. More than 30 of them have been delivered, including the first 18,000teu ULCC built by CSSC and the world's first LNG powered 23,000teu ULCC.
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