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tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
CMP said:
That's not how it's currently being pitched though. It's being pitched as Taiwan exports them to US for installation of back doors and collection of tariffs, then reexported to China from the US after they're ready to be installed and provide back doors into Chinese networks for NSA to hack China.
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Anyone with a semblence of knowledge in computing should know that these so called installation of backdoors is complete non-sense. Computer chips are specifically designed to perform a strict set of functions. No GPU can magically connect to the internet in a hidden manner. Spying requires network connection and whatever data is being sent has to go through several protocols and layers before they are sent out.

Even windows firewall can detect unauthorized network access and block it, let alone multiple layers of firewalls and checks that high security computers will have.

This is just China using the excuse of a backdoor to stop Chip import from NVDIA. Just like US uses backdoor as an excuse to ban Chinese products.

But I do believe China should ban Nvdia completely. Only with a complete ban can Chinese AI companies be forced to develop the necessary software tools and libraries that are needed for efficient AI training and inference. They should be developing all the tools and software to make Huawei's answer to CUDA viable.
 
supercat

supercat

Colonel
FriedButter said:
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Nvidia is obviously planning to dump chips.
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Too little too late:

China to limit access to Nvidia's H200 chips despite Trump export approval, FT reports​

Beijing is set to limit access to Nvidia's advanced H200 chips despite U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to allow the export of the technology to China, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday, citing two people with knowledge of the matter.

Regulators in Beijing have been discussing ways to permit limited access to the H200, Nvidia's second-best generation of artificial intelligence chips, according to the report.
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AssassinsMace said:


Of course according to CNN China hit a $1 trillion trade surplus… with the US only even though exports to the US have dropped over an 30% overall. How does that happen? Because Erin Burnett is lying. Have to make the US look like the victim of China’s further unfair trade practices when China has successfully changed course away from the US.
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It is even more impressive if you exclude the imports of energy, raw materials, and food from China's trade. The deductions push China's trade surplus of manufactured goods over $2 trillion. Trump's trade war is a complete failure. According to the WSJ:

China’s Manufacturing Is Booming Despite Trump’s Tariffs​

U.S. pressure has only cemented its rival’s status as the world’s indispensable factory floor, sending its trade surplus above $1 trillion
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daifo said:
According to these former us military pilots, "locking-on" is very common especially for naval pilots who encounter foreign aircrafts getting within a certain airspace of the carrier

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China announced the restricted area before the start of the military exercise, which was entirely within the international airspace. It's 100% Japan's fault to intrude into this restricted area and subject itself to China's interdiction.

CasualObserver said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1998420177822834858
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The US regime is engaged in a relentless economic war against the Europe. Yet utterly incompetent Eurocrats such as Séjourné: "let's prepare for a major conflict between China and the US!"
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1998398950907445398
 
P

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
Where will they refine it?
Even MP Materials was partly owned by Chinese SOE until US gov invested into it to make it US-SOE
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They have joint venture with Saudi. Saudis have alot of experience with US firms to get things done and Saudis have cheapest energy cost is G-20.. i think with robotics this industrialization will spread out.
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Saudi assembled Lucid.
1765336571321.png
 
FriedButter

FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
It feels like there is a shift in narrative. They use to complain that Chinese products being “cheap” because of inexpensive labor and non-existent slave labor. Now they are whining about the Yuan is being undervalued despite the fact the price of the Yuan has mostly been stable against the Euro/Dollar for the last decade. Saw people whining about this exact thing on Reddit. They are probably dreaming of Plaza Accord 2.0 where they can create a massive bubble and destroy China economy.

EU companies say ‘undervalued’ renminbi aiding China’s exporters​

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P

pokepara

New Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Anyone with a semblence of knowledge in computing should know that these so called installation of backdoors is complete non-sense. Computer chips are specifically designed to perform a strict set of functions. No GPU can magically connect to the internet in a hidden manner. Spying requires network connection and whatever data is being sent has to go through several protocols and layers before they are sent out.

Even windows firewall can detect unauthorized network access and block it, let alone multiple layers of firewalls and checks that high security computers will have.
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This is like 90's 1337 shit.

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Functions of this modified firmware remain unknown, but malware on the computer obtains the ability to write and read data to/from the dedicated hard drive area. We assume that this area becomes completely hidden from an operating system and even special forensic software. The data in this area may survive hard drive reformatting, plus firmware is theoretically able to reinfect hard drive’s boot area, infecting a newly installed operating system from the very beginning. To complicate things further, firmware checks and reprogramming rely on firmware itself, so it’s not possible to verify firmware integrity or reliably reupload firmware on a computer. In other words, once infected, hard drive firmware is indetectable and almost indestructible. It’s easier and cheaper to ditch a suspect drive and buy a new one.
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Also, pagers shouldn't explode, right?
 
H

huemens

Junior Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Anyone with a semblence of knowledge in computing should know that these so called installation of backdoors is complete non-sense. Computer chips are specifically designed to perform a strict set of functions. No GPU can magically connect to the internet in a hidden manner. Spying requires network connection and whatever data is being sent has to go through several protocols and layers before they are sent out.

Even windows firewall can detect unauthorized network access and block it, let alone multiple layers of firewalls and checks that high security computers will have.

This is just China using the excuse of a backdoor to stop Chip import from NVDIA. Just like US uses backdoor as an excuse to ban Chinese products.

But I do believe China should ban Nvdia completely. Only with a complete ban can Chinese AI companies be forced to develop the necessary software tools and libraries that are needed for efficient AI training and inference. They should be developing all the tools and software to make Huawei's answer to CUDA viable.
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Not saying they have backdoors. But it's not impossible to backdoor if they want to.
Big Hyperscalers don't buy individual PCIe cards. They buy pre-built servers with GPUs. In that case backdooring is extremely easy. For example all the existing AMD and Intel processors already have a hidden computer, which is effectively a backdoor. It's a complete subsystem with a CPU core, it's own RAM and it's own operating system (Minix in the case of Intel). They operate at a ring beyond the reach of the host OS kernel, has the ability to read all the data that goes through the CPU, has the ability to reach internet and phone home without the knowledge of the host OS.
Even in the case of discrete cards it's not impossible to do nefarious things. It connects to a PCIe port so it could in theory emulate almost any kind of peripheral including input devices and network interfaces.
 
H

huemens

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's basically a spyware disguised as a GPU monitoring system. How would it fight smuggling. Smugglers can just choose to not install it.

Nvidia builds location verification tech that could help fight chip smuggling​

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SAN FRANCISCO, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Nvidia has built location verification technology that could indicate which country its chips are operating in, according to sources familiar with the matter, a move that could help prevent its artificial intelligence chips from being smuggled into countries where ‌their export is banned.
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The feature, which Nvidia has demonstrated privately in recent months but has not yet released, would be an optional software ‌update that customers could install. It would tap into what are known as the confidential computing capabilities of its graphics processing units (GPUs), the sources said.
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The software was built to allow customers to track a chip's overall computing performance - a common practice among companies that buy fleets of processors for large data centers - and would use the time delay in communicating ⁠with servers run by Nvidia to give ‌a sense of the chip's location on par with what other internet-based services can provide, according to an Nvidia official.
"We're in the process of implementing a new software service ‍that empowers data center operators to monitor the health and inventory of their entire AI GPU fleet," Nvidia said in a statement. "This customer-installed software agent leverages GPU telemetry to monitor fleet health, integrity and inventory."
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H

HereToSeePics

Just Hatched
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
huemens said:
Not saying they have backdoors. But it's not impossible to backdoor if they want to.
Big Hyperscalers don't buy individual PCIe cards. They buy pre-built servers with GPUs. In that case backdooring is extremely easy. For example all the existing AMD and Intel processors already have a hidden computer, which is effectively a backdoor. It's a complete subsystem with a CPU core, it's own RAM and it's own operating system (Minix in the case of Intel). They operate at a ring beyond the reach of the host OS kernel, has the ability to read all the data that goes through the CPU, has the ability to reach internet and phone home without the knowledge of the host OS.
Even in the case of discrete cards it's not impossible to do nefarious things. It connects to a PCIe port so it could in theory emulate almost any kind of peripheral including input devices and network interfaces.
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While the idea of a "backdoor" is plausible, the idea is a bit far fetched because phone home attempts would be pretty easily detected by firewalls that these servers typically run behind. And frankly, any big hyperscaler with a budget to buy these servers should have a competent enough IT department to not put these servers on a network with access to the open internet.


pokepara said:
This is like 90's 1337 shit.

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Also, pagers shouldn't explode, right?
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can we please refrain from straw man and false equivalence type arguments?
 
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