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siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator

I can’t help but wonder if…if all this is for war preparation.

espwcially since America will be called upon by its master, Israel, to strike Iran and it will need rare earths to replenish its weapons.

Two traits of Xi —

1) He is very patient.
2) He holds a long grudge.

After eight years of bipartisan support for Trade War we are finally done with 1 and seeing repercussions from 2.
 

iewgnem

Captain
Registered Member
The only possible demand from China for a big move like this is complete removal of all export control on Chip equipment including EUV. Nothing else compares. This is the equivalent of the US chip export controls in size and sweeping nature.
Yeah Americans thought China wanted Nvidia chips too. You think China invested all that into multiple EUV and post-EUV tech because China wants to import them from ASML?

There are plenty of demands China can make, e.g. de-militarization, withdraw of forces from China's hemisphere, or for the lolz, end support for Israel.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The only possible demand from China for a big move like this is complete removal of all export control on Chip equipment including EUV. Nothing else compares. This is the equivalent of the US chip export controls in size and sweeping nature.
This is much bigger than EUV or even the entire semiconductor industry.

You are thinking like Iran: develop capability so they have leverage to negotiate it away. The end result of Iranian thinking is... Iran.

That is why western negotiators kept thinking North Korea was going to come to the table. They forgot the other reason to develop a capability: to have the capability.

Do you think China thinks more like a religious Middle Eastern country or do you think China thinks more like the country right next door and fought alongside the PLA?
 

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
This is much bigger than EUV or even the entire semiconductor industry.

You are thinking like Iran: develop capability so they have leverage to negotiate it away. The end result of Iranian thinking is... Iran.

That is why western negotiators kept thinking North Korea was going to come to the table. They forgot the other reason to develop a capability: to have the capability.

Do you think China thinks more like a religious Middle Eastern country or do you think China thinks more like the country right next door and fought alongside the PLA?
Export controls are one time use capability. Once you use it, other countries will develop alternatives, thus ending you leverage.

If China is using it, they know this is a temporary leverage and will go away within a few years. They need to get something tangible quickly while they still have the leverage.
 

enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
Export controls are one time use capability. Once you use it, other countries will develop alternatives, thus ending you leverage.

If China is using it, they know this is a temporary leverage and will go away within a few years. They need to get something tangible quickly while they still have the leverage.

The resulting atrophy of US industry for at least a decade is tangible enough
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Export controls are one time use capability. Once you use it, other countries will develop alternatives, thus ending you leverage.

If China is using it, they know this is a temporary leverage and will go away within a few years. They need to get something tangible quickly while they still have the leverage.
unless they can produce elements from thin air, which requires being able to harvest supernova remnants or transmute elements atom by atom at a particle accelerator, they won't be able to develop alternatives with equal performance. They'll be permanently worse.

Rare earths are not just a technology. They're a material. It is much easier to control both the material and the tech needed to use it, than just the tech. The whole "rare earths aren't rare" thing? Not actually true. They are actually rare. Low concentration = rare.

The resulting atrophy of US industry for at least a decade is tangible enough
Decade? Try permanently.

You see this assumes WW2 and early Cold War competence from the US. Do you see that?

Do you see projects proceeding with great urgency, a bureaucracy with streamlined processes to quickly approve new projects and a population that's eager for change and improvement?

No, I see a population that is fundamentally tired, conservative and unwilling to budge even mentally, let alone physically.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Everyone here knew that China held a nuclear-level card with RE minerals.

That China isn't a stupid Trump-led America should scare the hell out of the West, because if it now decided to play it, it means that China is orchestrating a huge plan now.

Not to fear monger, but if there is any common sense in the West, they should absolutely be terrified. Xi doesn't play games, he is playing to win. That he has decided to play an economic nuclear-level card, it means that he is gunning for the kill.

Now you are going to have a front-seat view to witness the difference in planning and execution ability between a competent and ruthless state and a state led be clowns and delusional think-tankers. History in the making

China might be finally ready to send the US either to the retirement home or to the graveyard
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General

I can’t help but wonder if…if all this is for war preparation.

espwcially since America will be called upon by its master, Israel, to strike Iran and it will need rare earths to replenish its weapons.

China has been in active war prep for at least the last decade. It’s only that the signs are finally becoming unmistakable to the idiots leading the west.
 
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