Miscellaneous News
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
This is yet another proof that any dreams of Trump pulling a reverse-Nixon on Russia, is pure fantasy. Putin had been cheated too many times to be played by Trump of all people. He had been cheated from "not one inch to the East", all the way to the Minsk agreements. Trump had promised that he'll stop the war as soon as he is president elect. And now this.
Yet people had dared to call him the "peace president". Clearly they had learned nothing from his first term. The late John Pilger described him most accurately as yet another standard American president. Just one without the good guy mask.
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FriedRiceNSpice
Major
Also a lot of Westerners think the Tungusic peoples and Mongolic people are the same. They dont understand the cultures, ancestry, beliefs and traditions of the two peoples are vastly different. Tungusic people of Manchuria share more in common with the Chinese than Mongols. Neither the Manchus or even their ancestors the Jurchens were ever steppe nomads nor practiced pastoralism. The Jurchens didn't even domesticate horses until they were conquered by the Khitans. They lived in forests, practiced agriculture supplemented by hunting and fishing, and literally rode reindeer instead of horses.
They don't know and don't care. They are always either virtue signaling or playing divide and conquer.
The difference between China and UK is that the UK never overthrew their French, Scandinavian and German masters while China overthrew Mongolians and Manchus. I wonder why 50% of English is derived from French but 1% of Chinese is Mongolian or Manchu. I guess the English must have really loved France, so much that they fought them in multiple wars including one that lasted 100 years.
Imagine if Manchus and Mongolians today still had hereditary wealth from medieval times.
They believe that nonsense because Nurhaci said some crap about Mongols and Manchus being brothers. Keep in mind though this was just a way to get Mongols to join them in fighting rather than any real shared cultural thing. The best they got is using Mongolian language but guess what language the Yuan/Qing courts used then? According to Nurhaci, Chinese Han Soldiers who joined the 8 banners early enough could be called Manchus too so what does that tell you? It is estimated than the vast majority of the early 8 banner "Manchu" army that conquered China were actually just Han Chinese pretending to be someone else. The reason is coz they had knowledge in stuff like cannons, firearms and the fact there were not many actual manuchus.
Also if those westeners actually bothered to study Qing history apart from the invasion bit, they would know the biggest enemy from Kangxi to Qianlong period were actually Mongols. A lot of Mongols were considered uppity and didn't listen, so those emperors focused on crushing them above everything else. This ended with the famous massacre Qianlong carried out against the Dzungar which ironically many of the participants were not Han Chinese but other ethnic groups including Urghyrs who had a historical grudge against Mongols. The Qing were far bigger haters of Mongols compared to Han Chinese and personally in my opinion one of the biggest positives is Qing solved the nomad problem once and for all where modern China can reap the dividends from it.
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Agreed. I have heard about the arguments by those China haters that the Yuan and Qing dynasties were "proof" that China had not been a continuous civilization. That it had been "conquered" by foreigners.
This is one of those crap arguments by those British pseudo historians, as well as HK and Taiwan separatists. It's one of their arguments as to why China had no historical claims over HK, Taiwan, and Tibet.
Wrong. The Mongolians and Manchus were part of Chinese civilization. They may have started out as foreigners to Han-ruled imperial China, but their dynasties have added Mongolia and Manchuria into the greater Chinese civilization state. Today, ethnic Mongolians or Manchus are full Chinese citizens. Many had been proud citizens of China.
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Again if they want to go that way, what does that make of other countries? A lot of Europe already lost their native v-card when the Romans came in. I already mentioned the UK which has almost never had a native Brit monarch since 1066. Spain was conquered and under rule by Moor Muslims for 700 years. The original rulers of the modern entity of France were Germanic from Belgium and Napoleon is ethnically Italian. Those were much longer periods and older too where they had much greater effect. Why are they not seen as conquered people?
China has two recent dynasties with about 350 years of "foreign" rule where one of them was under Ming rule. Technically the Mongols were under the Jin dynasty rule too. There's a reason Genghis Khan was in Chinese jail. Both also didn't try to change Chinese culture or language much. So if you are anything worse than that benchmark, you have no right to talk.
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FriedRiceNSpice
Major
Well, the Mongols under Genghis nearly exterminated the ancestors of the Manchus and toppled the first empire they ever founded. Interestingly, even though they lost the war, the Jin armies were the first to have won battles against the Mongols (although the victories came too late to change the course of the war).
FriedRiceNSpice
Major
The Yuan and Qing had very different views towards Chinese culture and Chinese people. Under the Yuan, Chinese were third class citizens. Every other ethnic group was higher up on the Yuan classification system than the Han.