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Tse

Tse

Junior Member
Registered Member
OTCDebunker said:
I thought either Han Dynasty or one of the earlier ones actually invented blast furnaces and that Chinese iron and steel were superior to anything Europeans could produce until around 1000 AD from just pieces of random research here and there?
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you are right, the Han dynasty invention of the Blast furnace was indeed a millennium ahead of everyone else, and I have often said that the Romans were pitiful in how few technologies they actually invented even as compared to their Greek predecessors (or even their medieval european successors!).

However, mass production of iron is more than just blast furnace technology. For example, ore and coal mining might probably be even more critical to mass metal production. The Romans excelled in hydraulic mining, water drainage, water-powered trip hammers etc which were complementary with their really excellent aqueduct network. Also the huge slave market — supplied by wars in the neighbouring societies — was the most important source for mining labour, which no free person wanted to do.

Han China did not have these factors. China's neighbours had no population to speak of as compared to China. Also in the Han, the blast furnace served mainly to make brittle cast iron; not really relevant for warfare and used instead for agricultural tools. And as I mentioned, after unifying China, Han conquests did not rely heavily on iron arms and armour because steppe warfare isn't fought like that so there's no demand anyway.
 
M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
OTCDebunker said:
I guess I could've chosen a different set of words that would make my point about being overrated easier to understand.

Americans and Westerners absolutely and wholeheartedly believe that the Romans were not just the number 1 empire of all time, but that they stand so far vastly ahead of everyone else that it could be like comparing an Elder God boosted by an Infinity Gauntlet next to an average city cop.

They truly believe that.

That if it weren't for the Roman Empire (and the subsequent western empires) that the whole world would be stuck somewhere in either the bronze age or iron age.

This is what I mean by overrated.

Sure I'll concede the Rome is still inside of the top-tier of empires. But the truth is that Rome is like the Dartmouth or the Cornell of empires. Not the Harvard, Yale, or Stanford of empires. Still in the overall 'group' for being the best, but towards the bottom of the best.

But if you ask the westeners they would say that Rome is more like the university of a hyper advanced civilization tens of thousands of years in the future whereas everybody else is just a normal college. This is obviously just beyond ridiculous.
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Technologically, most of the Roman period is probably stagnation. But they did advance the western legal tradition and spread Christianity in Europe, which is regarded as a positive thing by some. I don't think I've met any people claiming that Rome was hyper advanced like that, maybe American people think that but their education system is well known to be awful

Militarily, you can't really compare with other countries over more than a millenium of history. Of course there were periods when the Roman empire was weaker and when it was stronger than its neighbours or China. Comparing for example the performance of the early Roman republic in its war with Hannibal, who was not from a barbarian civilisation, to the Han at the peak of their power fighting against the Xiongnu is not really a fair comparison. Actually one of the best kept secrets of Roman military history is that they didn't just get beaten by barbarian tribes from northern Europe, but also tried for a few hundred years to expand in west Asia but failed to defeat the Parthians/Persians
 
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luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
luminary said:
Indian internet trolls and keyboard warriors are the super soft power that no Western power can match.
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Well to be honest Trudeau tried and landed a perfect routine which get him a rousing applause from the audience, its his teammate Anthony Rota who disappoint. The Indian team are all in sync from Modi the top player down to the Janitor, It's like the mental gymnastic sport are made especially for them. ;) And the talents are so massive that they will dominate the sport forever.
 
Lnk111229

Lnk111229

Junior Member
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
Interesting thing I found out from the comments
Vietnam contracted out to build Metro lines in HCM City and Hanoi at roughly the same time (~2011/2012).
Hanoi went to Chinese company
HCMC went to Japanese company.
Both are delayed and over budget (Hanoi at 1.8X, HCMC at 3X), but at least Hanoi has been running since 2021, but HCMC is yet to be put into full service.

I don't know enough about these projects besides that, anyone from Vietnam can talk about it more? Do people like the Hanoi line? Are people blaming China for the budget? (If so, what do they say about Japan? lol)
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Well, depend who you ask! If ask fair mind who know how real world work then Hanoi line is good. Overbudget is most concerned and criticism but like any projects of any country it unavoidable. Clean and fast, help solve the nightmare traffic of Hanoi a lot. Otherwise then you just a traitor,Vietjian, dog for Chinese just because you dare to speak good about Hanoi line. Lol. Funny thing is online forums full of China hater used to mocking Hanoi line relentless but when Hanoi line put to use while HCMC line nowhere to see then bunch of Jap criticism appears. They pointed out Jap technology just same as Chinese(for Vietnamese the Jap technology used to be some kind of alien technology), just over budget slow as fck and nothing special same as other.
 
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