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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Russian economy has long been undervalued. A lot of what they produce is for internal consumption. People joke about how there are no Russian products anywhere so it is like the Russian economy does not exist in a world trade setting, but if you go to Russia, most things people consume are not Western brands either. And after Western brands left the market I think this will continue to speed up.

The major issue Russia still had is low salaries, which meant low motivation to automate production. But that stopped being the case two years ago. Another issue they have is lack of worker mobility. In Russia they are used to the zero unemployment of Soviet times. Companies hire staff and they seldom let them go completely even when there is no need to produce anything. Because if they lose the staff it is a bitch to get someone again.
 
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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
The Russian economy has long been undervalued. A lot of what they produce is for internal consumption. People joke about how there are no Russian products anywhere so it is like the Russian economy does not exist in a world trade setting, but if you go to Russia, the Western brands aren't in most things people consume either.
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But even according to flawed gdp methodology, the Russian economy is not really that small. It's still Japan/Germany sized, which means its only smaller than India (hard carried by massive population and highly dubious financial sector), US (complete tech supply chain, world's largest financial sector) and China (compete tech supply chain, world's largest market).

Of course if you start using measures like energy consumption or material production, Russia shoots up even more. However, even "undervalued" gdp doesn't actually undervalue them a lot. Russia certainly performs better than Germany, certainly is worse compared to US or China, and probably is better than India. So the gdp ranking of Russia closely follows Russia's actual performance, with India being the only outlier.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Index said:
But even according to flawed gdp methodology, the Russian economy is not really that small. It's still Japan/Germany sized, which means its only smaller than India (hard carried by massive population and highly dubious financial sector), US (complete tech supply chain, world's largest financial sector) and China (compete tech supply chain, world's largest market).
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Only in GDP PPP. If you use GDP Nominal the Russian economy looks much smaller. Like the size of Mexico or Canada.
Which is ludicrous in the face of it. Just consider the industrial and financial might of those three countries.
Do Canada or Mexico have a space program with their own space launchers? Do they have nukes? What about auto brands?
It is just a ridiculous comparison. Which is why even the CIA does not use GDP Nominal to compare countries. Highly dependent on currency exchange rate and other extraneous factors.

Index said:
Of course if you start using measures like energy consumption or material production, Russia shoots up even more. However, even "undervalued" gdp doesn't actually undervalue them a lot. Russia certainly performs better than Germany, certainly is worse compared to US or China, and probably is better than India. So the gdp ranking of Russia closely follows Russia's actual performance, with India being the only outlier.
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I think GDP PPP is a more fair comparison. But for the MIC many people say the adjustment factor for the GDP PPP isn't nearly good enough.
If you compare things in the PPP basket like food prices it is common for it to be four times cheaper in Russia if you compare Russian and US prices and use the current exchange rate. But for military products it is way more lopsided. I and others have compared prices of aircraft, ships, etc. The state acquisition prices in rubles are public. For nuclear submarines there is like an eight or ten times price gap. Right now we are seeing the same price differential for artillery shells. So some people think the PPP adjustment isn't enough when you consider MIC expenditure.
 
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
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The Biden camp now has their shills claiming if he's pushed out causing election chaos, China will invade Taiwan.
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Russia, China, North Korea, Mars, Gliese 12b, ghosts, 5th dimensional beings.

1720825056605.png

They gaslighted everyone about the obvious Biden mental problems and now just months from the elections they are in a state of pure shear panic. A self-inflicted wound that will just rot if they don't drop Biden soon.
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Only in GDP PPP. If you use GDP Nominal the Russian economy looks much smaller. Like the size of Mexico or Canada.
Which is ludicrous in the face of it. Just consider the industrial and financial might of those three countries.
Do Canada or Mexico have a space program with their own space launchers? Do they have nukes? What about auto brands?
It is just a ridiculous comparison. Which is why even the CIA does not use GDP Nominal to compare countries. Highly dependent on currency exchange rate and other extraneous factors.


I think GDP PPP is a more fair comparison. But for the MIC many people say the adjustment factor for the GDP PPP isn't nearly good enough.
If you compare things in the PPP basket like food prices it is common for it to be four times cheaper in Russia if you compare Russian and US prices and use the current exchange rate. But for military products it is way more lopsided. I and others have compared prices of aircraft, ships, etc. The state acquisition prices in rubles are public. For nuclear submarines there is like an eight or ten times price gap. Right now we are seeing the same price differential for artillery shells. So some people think the PPP adjustment isn't enough when you consider MIC expenditure.
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Nominal in what currency?

A traditional gdp comparison is based on the country's output in their services/goods. What currency does the Russian economy use for their goods? The nominal GDP of Russia is 5.2 trillion $ (converted from ruble).

It already takes into account different currency pricing... On paper at least. But doesn't take into account that different "transactions" have different societal values. Under traditional gdp measurement, a decade old road that generates 30 million in tolls is as great of a contribution to economy size as using 30 million to buy a new, communal, road.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Index said:
Nominal in what currency?

A traditional gdp comparison is based on the country's output in their services/goods. What currency does the Russian economy use for their goods? The nominal GDP of Russia is 5.2 trillion $ (converted from ruble).

It already takes into account different currency pricing... On paper at least. But doesn't take into account that different "transactions" have different societal values. Under traditional gdp measurement, a decade old road that generates 30 million in tolls is as great of a contribution to economy size as using 30 million to buy a new, communal, road.
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GDP in USD. Which what people talk about, when they say the Russian economy is comparable to the size of Canada, or Mexico, or the state of Texas. Like I said the comparison does not make sense.
 
supercat

supercat

Major
ougoah said:
China does not have too much of an alternative to Western clients. Certainly not of the same value.
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The Global South is more than enough to replace Western markets. Also, some of China's exports to the US pass through third countries in the Global South, as components before they are assembled into final products in those countries. See article below.

China’s June export surge points to higher growth​

Jump in Central Asian exports reflects China’s Belt and Road Initiative-driven infrastructure-building goals in Global South

During the past four years, China has doubled its exports to the Global South while exports to developed markets have risen marginally.
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NATO's accusation and China's forceful response:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1811620982710210794
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1811598260316045786

The US is the real surveillance state and its hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.

America's hypocrisy is the gift that keeps on giving for China​

U.S. double standards erode trust, fuel Beijing's propaganda machine
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