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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
It's probably not political.

I'm not sure when the match was scheduled after the flight, but he's an older guy and maybe it's true his muscles were tight after a ~20 hr flight. (Playing devil's advocate, I don't even care about soccer too much, as evidenced by my calling it soccer)

In any case, is anyone so surprised by a superstar's diva behaviour? All kinds of ridiculous demands have been revealed over the years from different stars, parking space for mom near the arena, private office for a player, unlimited sushi, etc.
 

Lnk111229

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's probably not political.

I'm not sure when the match was scheduled after the flight, but he's an older guy and maybe it's true his muscles were tight after a ~20 hr flight. (Playing devil's advocate, I don't even care about soccer too much, as evidenced by my calling it soccer)

In any case, is anyone so surprised by a superstar's diva behaviour? All kinds of ridiculous demands have been revealed over the years from different stars, parking space for mom near the arena, private office for a player, unlimited sushi, etc.
No, look how many John Xina meme pop up like mushrooms after rain just because Cena say something nice about China. I say definitely those popular figures get instructions to do that. It habits of those sore losers in Washington.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
“Asia” being effectively just two countries: Japan and South Korea; neither of which is particularly important to the United States
That's one hell of a sale you're running there. Take Taiwan, get Korea and Japan free? We were just trying get back what's ours not rob the whole hood clean. I know that the US is gonna give up on Taiwan long before China but I didn't expect it to give up Japan and Korea too without so much as a threat from China towards them. I really hope you can become America's top negotiator. I'd bribe anyone with my own money to get you the job.
Which countries are this “world”?
Look up the UN. All of them. The most difficult ones are going to be the Western Euros, Canada, Australia and that's already a minority of the countries out there. The rest are most clear-headed and can see China's rise but even the difficult ones aren't totally mindless. They can see it too but are just hoping that what they see isn't true. When it becomes more obvious, they will all see China's rise and America's relative wane, in the order of their intelligence of course.
Europe and FVEY will stick with the U.S. until the end of all time and developing world countries deal based in transactions of coercion and inducement. And even if America’s will in Asia can’t be effectuated -> so what?
Declining powers lose their grip piece by piece. Asia is the hardest to maintain, and the US loses it to China, Europe will see the first large piece of that puzzle come into place. Previous to this, America and the West have already lost small pieces in the global south to Chinese influence. Asia would just be the most visible. Then, China, having secured its surroundings, will have less to worry about and more resources to develop, making its rise and the relative fall of the US, even faster. Europe is an American stronghold but so are Japan and Korea. With China rising further, and Russia in its alignment, they will jump ship to the new Chinese world order. There's no difference between developed countries and developing countries in how they decide allegience. It's not about whom they follow; it's about never sinking with the ship.
See above. The stakes aren’t high for the U.S. since the 3 biggest reasons cited for Taiwan: “credibility”, “Asia” and “democracy” are fairly analytically vaucous
The stakes are measured against the risks and I agree with you 100% that China is raising the stakes far too high for the US to engage in war. The US would rather lose its credibility and accelerate its decline than lose its life. And China's working hard everyday to make that calculation and decision an ever simpler one.

The part where I don't agree is that you seem to think that Americans will be happily eating popcorn as they watch this unfold and they watch their empire unravel. No, there will be no popcorn; there will be only horrid porcine squeals from the likes of Pompeo, Pelosi, Rubio, Cotton, Cruz, etc... American TV will sound like a Smithfield slaughterhouse the day after a disgruntled worker swapped out all the machine blades with rusted keys overnight.
 
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
I will have to say, Putin agreeing to give a 2-hour interview to Tucker Carlson was genius and has gotten Russia a massive soft power boost in the West. It reminds me of those days when China's CPC didn't even have relations with the U.S., but Mao would selectively give interviews with proven friendly Western journalists like Edgar Snow (author of "Red Star Over China") and effectively get his message out. An example from 1965:
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All Putin said was that Ukraine is not real country. it is Soviet Communist creation when Soviets elites were populated by Ukranians. and he made much less cause with Christians of West. There was not even hint of he trying to boost Soft Power. If this interview really boost Russia Soft Power than it show weakness of West.
Russia boost Soft Power in much more sophisticated way to a different audience. it certainly not comes from Dugin, lavrov or Putin ramblings.
Qatar did FIFA and Russia keep engaging them and the foot ball clubs become like mini BRICS even though Qatar is not in BRICS and Qatar got invited for events about BRICS.
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Another exchange to enhance Arab Soft Power.
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
That's one hell of a sale you're running there. Take Taiwan, get Korea and Japan free? We were just trying get back what's ours not rob the whole hood clean. I know that the US is gonna give up on Taiwan long before China but I didn't expect it to give up Japan and Korea too without so much as a threat from China towards them. I really hope you can become America's top negotiator. I'd bribe anyone with my own money to get you the job.

The stakes are measured against the risks and I agree with you 100% that China is raising the stakes far too high for the US to engage in war. The US would rather lose its credibility and accelerate its decline than lose its life. And China's working hard everyday to make that calculation and decision an ever simpler one.

The part where I don't agree is that you seem to think that Americans will be happily eating popcorn as they watch this unfold and they watch their empire unravel. No, there will be no popcorn; there will be only horrid porcine squeals from the likes of Pompeo, Pelosi, Rubio, Cotton, Cruz, etc... American TV will sound like a Smithfield slaughterhouse the day after a disgruntled worker swapped out all the machine blades with rusted keys overnight.

It's something that was discussed in the Taiwan thread before. If a war over Taiwan expands into a total Pacific war, then the USA can let Japan and Korea get devastated as sacrificial pawns. Taking them out will likely exhaust the PLA and leave the US proper unthreatened.

As for the popcorn, I can partially understand OP's logic. America has the luxury of doing nothing over Taiwan. Screaming and crying by politicians is ultimately meaningless. If there is no huge trade disruption, then either America becomes the leader of semi manufacturing (if Taiwan's factories are destroyed), or business just goes on as usual (which is the US is the leading economy at this moment). What is a loss of prestige in practical terms? Taking the Ukraine example, the Russian invasion has convinced Sweden and Finland to pay NATO protection money, meanwhile Ukraine's lost territory, with time passing becomes less recoverable, is of no real concern to the US.
 

Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
I still maintain that 1C2S was objectively a mistake and the right thing to do was roll the PLA into HK, drive the anglos into the ocean, and force them to swim back to angloland. The 1967 riots would have been great pretext for ousting the colonial government and saving decades of headaches from a bunch of entitled gits.
That would mean China will play their game, that would have been a pyrrhic victory for China. There's a lot of strength in restraint.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
It's something that was discussed in the Taiwan thread before. If a war over Taiwan expands into a total Pacific war, then the USA can let Japan and Korea get devastated as sacrificial pawns. Taking them out will likely exhaust the PLA and leave the US proper unthreatened.
What kind of dream situation is this, where Japan and Korea let themselves get beaten into a pulp while the US remains untouched? LOL They'll barely move compared to whatever the US is willing to do. They're not stupid; they don't get aggressive with a country that the US is too scared to fight. And taking them out wouldn't exhaust the PLA unless we wanted to invade them and take those lands too. The PLA would savage them with missile strikes shutting them both up, then conduct our operations on Taiwan as planned.
As for the popcorn, I can partially understand OP's logic. America has the luxury of doing nothing over Taiwan. Screaming and crying by politicians is ultimately meaningless.
There is no logic to be understood. Doing nothing while watching your allies get taken over by your enemies is a luxury??
If there is no huge trade disruption,
Which is not possible if China is involved
then either America becomes the leader of semi manufacturing (if Taiwan's factories are destroyed),
No, that would go to China; America may inherit some tech from Taiwan but anything they get becomes stagnant and up for China to overrun. America just doesn't move fast enough to hold onto any edge; they have all the tools to become the leader of semi manufacturing now but the technician's too stupid to put the tools together.
or business just goes on as usual (which is the US is the leading economy at this moment).
What business? Raising imputed rent, education and healtcare costs? Moving around fake money and no goods? LOL China's the leading real economy; America doesn't even come close. It's just pretending with a house of cards reliant on the real manufacturing of China.
What is a loss of prestige in practical terms?
The inability to influence Asia. The accelerated resurgence of China in a surrounding that is no longer hostile towards it with former Chinese enemies realizing that that would be a losing battle.
Taking the Ukraine example, the Russian invasion has convinced Sweden and Finland to pay NATO protection money, meanwhile Ukraine's lost territory, with time passing becomes less recoverable, is of no real concern to the US.
The difference between Russia and China is that Russia was never a true threat to American power. When Russia wins Ukraine, it will still be good ol' Russia, a thorn in America's side but not its true rival. But whatever China takes, it converts to another advantage to surpassing the US on all fronts. The reintegration of Taiwan into China and the de-Americanization of Asia paved a beautiful foundation to China's ascent to the top of the world.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's something that was discussed in the Taiwan thread before. If a war over Taiwan expands into a total Pacific war, then the USA can let Japan and Korea get devastated as sacrificial pawns. Taking them out will likely exhaust the PLA and leave the US proper unthreatened.

As for the popcorn, I can partially understand OP's logic. America has the luxury of doing nothing over Taiwan. Screaming and crying by politicians is ultimately meaningless. If there is no huge trade disruption, then either America becomes the leader of semi manufacturing (if Taiwan's factories are destroyed), or business just goes on as usual (which is the US is the leading economy at this moment). What is a loss of prestige in practical terms? Taking the Ukraine example, the Russian invasion has convinced Sweden and Finland to pay NATO protection money, meanwhile Ukraine's lost territory, with time passing becomes less recoverable, is of no real concern to the US.
US will never lead in semiconductor production. Wafer capacity right now is South Korea, Taiwan, Mainland China as top 3 within 5% of each other and nobody else is even close.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
The Indians act and do things in the same way and manner as Western countries. They also breathlessly lies with a smile. Big props to India.
You'd think after a century of being subjects of a brutal colonization that they'd have developed an independent system of thinking or align themselves with other such subjects who suffered the same. Yet, they put on the pedestal the same folk who subjugated them. It appears that slave mentality is still a major force in their psyche.

Maybe it is the caste system of Hindus where the minority born into a Brahmin family rules indefinitely over the minority born into the lower castes; that system is similar to the WASP system of northern/western Europe. Likes attract but WASP will never share power with non-WASP's, and most certainly not with former colonial subjects who do not fulfill even a single letter of the acronym.

3 million Indians killed in one year by Winston Churchill's Bengal Famine which was manufactured to prevent Japanese from entering
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chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's one hell of a sale you're running there. Take Taiwan, get Korea and Japan free?
Two countries with a combined GDP of ~15% of the U.S. level and declining? Okay
Look up the UN. All of them. The most difficult ones are going to be the Western Euros, Canada, Australia and that's already a minority of the countries out there. The rest are most clear-headed and can see China's rise but even the difficult ones aren't totally mindless.
Developing countries can’t afford to be ideological. They wheel and deal as it comes.
They can see it too but are just hoping that what they see isn't true. When it becomes more obvious, they will all see China's rise and America's relative wane, in the order of their intelligence of course.
Declining powers lose their grip piece by piece. Asia is the hardest to maintain, and the US loses it to China, Europe will see the first large piece of that puzzle come into place. Previous to this, America and the West have already lost small pieces in the global south to Chinese influence. Asia would just be the most visible. Then, China, having secured its surroundings, will have less to worry about and more resources to develop, making its rise and the relative fall of the US, even faster. Europe is an American stronghold but so are Japan and Korea. With China rising further, and Russia in its alignment, they will jump ship to the new Chinese world order. There's no difference between developed countries and developing countries in how they decide allegience. It's not about whom they follow; it's about never sinking with the ship.
I disagree with this; since those alliances are already strongly fixed and the switching costs are very high, the power differential would need to be very massive to change. Penciling in 2% growth in the U.S. and 5% growth in China doesn’t move the needle substantially for decades. And of course, even assuming I am wrong, the U.S. is the least exposed economy to international trade so the US need for the foreign sector writ large is also quite small
The stakes are measured against the risks and I agree with you 100% that China is raising the stakes far too high for the US to engage in war. The US would rather lose its credibility and accelerate its decline than lose its life. And China's working hard everyday to make that calculation and decision an ever simpler one.
In absolute terms, the U.S. has never been better. The relative stakes are small.
No, there will be no popcorn; there will be only horrid porcine squeals from the likes of Pompeo, Pelosi, Rubio, Cotton, Cruz, etc... American TV will sound like a Smithfield slaughterhouse the day after a disgruntled worker swapped out all the machine blades with rusted keys overnight.
The stakes are low. Just because some people in DC hyperventilate doesnt make it real. The U.S. will have no physical harm and any economic disruption (let’s say gdp drops 20%) would vault the U.S. back to the living standards back to the horrible days of the late 2000s
 
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