Miscellaneous News

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
How is this based? He's just accepting a 30 year old idea/common sense.
Musk saying stuff like this has a big effect. He more than anyone else represent one vision of how US can beat China: for some Tony Stark like guy to come up with "the next big thing" on the level of invention of steam engines or internet. That industry explodes in US and makes a huge amount of money and get them out of the current funk they're stuck in.

Musk in general and SpaceX and Tesla in particular as seen as possible candidates of such new economy paradigm. However the more Musk seems friendly with China the more the big fear American elites have becomes possible: that even if the next big thing is invented by someone in America he might take it with him to China and grow it there, because conditions in China may be more suitable to grow such a new market. You can see this already with Huawei and 5G, DJI with drones and BYD with EVs, they are worried sick about this possibility.

Never mind that the "next big thing" could very well be invented by a Chinese person to start with.

Imagine there's no SpaceX. How do you think Americans would feel right now seeing Tiangong nearly completed and SLS back in the VAB? Shit talking NASA aside the thing that gets them through the day is "that's okay, even if NASA drops the ball we still got SpaceX carrying".
 
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Appix

Senior Member
Registered Member

U.S. intensifies assault on China chip ambitions​

Strictest ever curbs on exports of advanced tools, AI chips and more

The U.S. has introduced sweeping export controls aimed at curbing almost every aspect of China's semiconductor development as part of its toughest crackdown yet on Beijing's tech ambitions.

The U.S. Commerce Department on Friday barred American companies from shipping certain grades of advanced chip equipment to any Chinese client without a license, effective immediately. The same curbs will apply to shipments of American-made electronics parts or other items that China could use to produce its own chipmaking tools and equipment.

Under the new rules "U.S. persons" will also be restricted from providing support to the development or production of chips at Chinese "semiconductor fabrication facilities without a license," starting Oct. 12.

The commerce department also tightened the so-called Foreign Direct Product Rule to restrict China's ability to obtain or build cutting-edge chips used in supercomputers and artificial intelligence applications. These curbs will also apply to global chipmakers, including Samsung of South Korea and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., whose manufacturing relies on American technologies.

The new rules show Washington's determination to restrict China's ability to develop cutting-edge semiconductors and computer systems that are crucial for Beijing's advanced manufacturing as well as many security, space, and defense applications.

"The PRC government is attempting to divert a lot of civilian technologies, particularly in computing, space, AI and communications, into areas of supercomputers in civil-military fusion programs as well as other areas such as surveillance that link with human rights abuses," a senior U.S. Commerce Department official said when outlining some of the reasons for the tighter rules.

They come as the U.S. is attempting to shore up its domestic semiconductor industry, including by offering generous federal and state subsidies for chipmakers.

The restrictions on chip equipment could hit Chinese memory chip champions Yangtze Memory Technologies (YMTC) and ChangXin Memory Technologies particularly hard, as both companies are in the midst of ramping up their output.

They will also create hurdles for Chinese chipmaking equipment makers such as Naura and Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment, which are working to help Chinese chipmakers get around U.S. sanctions by building up domestic production tools to
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YMTC was one of more than 30 companies and research institutions that the U.S. on Friday placed on an "Unverified List" of clients. The list is intended as a red flag to American suppliers to be careful of doing business with those named. If these companies fail to provide documentation required by the U.S., they are likely to be officially blacklisted on Washington's so-called Entity List, alongside the likes of Huawei Technologies.

The U.S. further said on Friday that 28 entities already blacklisted will be subject to enhanced export controls under the Foreign Direct Product Rule, to restrict their ability to source from foreign suppliers using any American technologies.

Under the new rules, a license is required to ship chip equipment that can make processors and other logic chips using 14/16-nanometer technology or better. In logic chipmaking, a smaller nanometer number generally indicates a more advanced chip. The latest iPhone processors are produced with 5-nm chip tech.

For DRAM chips, the restrictions kick in for tools that are 18-nm or better, while for NAND flash memories the rules apply to machines capable of making chips with 128 or more layers.

NAND and DRAM are key types of memory components needed for all electronic devices, from smartphones and computers to servers and connected cars.

YMTC mass-produces 3D NAND flash memory chips on the 128-layer level, about one or two generations behind global leaders, and aims to put the next generation of 192-layer chips into production within a year.

American chip equipment makers such as Applied Materials, Lam Research and KLA are still sorely needed if China is to quickly and smoothly ramp up chip production.

According to a Boston Consulting Group analysis, there are at least 23 types of chipmaking equipment for which American companies control more than 65% of global supply.

The new rules on advanced chipmaking tools apply only to U.S. companies and not foreign players such as ASML and Tokyo Electron. However the U.S. is working closely with "like-minded" allies to persuade them to similarly restrict exports of technology that China could use to build advanced chips used in weapons, supercomputers and surveillance applications that violate human rights, according to a senior Commerce Department official.

"We've briefed and consulted with close allies and partners on these controls, in the new obligations that they create related to chips designed with U.S. tools, software or equipment or tooling experts involving U.S. persons," the official said. "We expect all countries to comply with these measures as we do with all of our export controls."

Mark Li, a veteran semiconductor analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein, sees the American move as set to substantially slow China's chip development.

"If the ban also widens to bar U.S. citizens or people to provide support to Chinese companies, that could have a big effect too," Li said. "After all, talents and their know-hows are great assets to develop next generation chip technologies."

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Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just goes to show you can't buy friends, a lesson China should learn.
Playing geopolitics is more like running a mafia being the don. People will be willing to die for you if you protect everyone's common interest and gives all the people working for you a fair shake. US use to do this with things like the Marshall Plan helping Europe develop and letting Japan/South Korea/Taiwan get that chip making pie by giving it up themselves.

Today US is all about making as much money as possible selling overpriced LPG to EU, blowing up pipes if necessary and trying to claw back chip making from the three Asian countries. It's little wonder that the underlings are having disloyal thoughts in their head.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

U.S. intensifies assault on China chip ambitions​

Strictest ever curbs on exports of advanced tools, AI chips and more

The U.S. has introduced sweeping export controls aimed at curbing almost every aspect of China's semiconductor development as part of its toughest crackdown yet on Beijing's tech ambitions.

The U.S. Commerce Department on Friday barred American companies from shipping certain grades of advanced chip equipment to any Chinese client without a license, effective immediately. The same curbs will apply to shipments of American-made electronics parts or other items that China could use to produce its own chipmaking tools and equipment.

Under the new rules "U.S. persons" will also be restricted from providing support to the development or production of chips at Chinese "semiconductor fabrication facilities without a license," starting Oct. 12.

The commerce department also tightened the so-called Foreign Direct Product Rule to restrict China's ability to obtain or build cutting-edge chips used in supercomputers and artificial intelligence applications. These curbs will also apply to global chipmakers, including Samsung of South Korea and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., whose manufacturing relies on American technologies.

The new rules show Washington's determination to restrict China's ability to develop cutting-edge semiconductors and computer systems that are crucial for Beijing's advanced manufacturing as well as many security, space, and defense applications.

"The PRC government is attempting to divert a lot of civilian technologies, particularly in computing, space, AI and communications, into areas of supercomputers in civil-military fusion programs as well as other areas such as surveillance that link with human rights abuses," a senior U.S. Commerce Department official said when outlining some of the reasons for the tighter rules.

They come as the U.S. is attempting to shore up its domestic semiconductor industry, including by offering generous federal and state subsidies for chipmakers.

The restrictions on chip equipment could hit Chinese memory chip champions Yangtze Memory Technologies (YMTC) and ChangXin Memory Technologies particularly hard, as both companies are in the midst of ramping up their output.

They will also create hurdles for Chinese chipmaking equipment makers such as Naura and Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment, which are working to help Chinese chipmakers get around U.S. sanctions by building up domestic production tools to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

YMTC was one of more than 30 companies and research institutions that the U.S. on Friday placed on an "Unverified List" of clients. The list is intended as a red flag to American suppliers to be careful of doing business with those named. If these companies fail to provide documentation required by the U.S., they are likely to be officially blacklisted on Washington's so-called Entity List, alongside the likes of Huawei Technologies.

The U.S. further said on Friday that 28 entities already blacklisted will be subject to enhanced export controls under the Foreign Direct Product Rule, to restrict their ability to source from foreign suppliers using any American technologies.

Under the new rules, a license is required to ship chip equipment that can make processors and other logic chips using 14/16-nanometer technology or better. In logic chipmaking, a smaller nanometer number generally indicates a more advanced chip. The latest iPhone processors are produced with 5-nm chip tech.

For DRAM chips, the restrictions kick in for tools that are 18-nm or better, while for NAND flash memories the rules apply to machines capable of making chips with 128 or more layers.

NAND and DRAM are key types of memory components needed for all electronic devices, from smartphones and computers to servers and connected cars.

YMTC mass-produces 3D NAND flash memory chips on the 128-layer level, about one or two generations behind global leaders, and aims to put the next generation of 192-layer chips into production within a year.

American chip equipment makers such as Applied Materials, Lam Research and KLA are still sorely needed if China is to quickly and smoothly ramp up chip production.

According to a Boston Consulting Group analysis, there are at least 23 types of chipmaking equipment for which American companies control more than 65% of global supply.

The new rules on advanced chipmaking tools apply only to U.S. companies and not foreign players such as ASML and Tokyo Electron. However the U.S. is working closely with "like-minded" allies to persuade them to similarly restrict exports of technology that China could use to build advanced chips used in weapons, supercomputers and surveillance applications that violate human rights, according to a senior Commerce Department official.

"We've briefed and consulted with close allies and partners on these controls, in the new obligations that they create related to chips designed with U.S. tools, software or equipment or tooling experts involving U.S. persons," the official said. "We expect all countries to comply with these measures as we do with all of our export controls."

Mark Li, a veteran semiconductor analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein, sees the American move as set to substantially slow China's chip development.

"If the ban also widens to bar U.S. citizens or people to provide support to Chinese companies, that could have a big effect too," Li said. "After all, talents and their know-hows are great assets to develop next generation chip technologies."

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I really like how they always crank it up slowly like they're training China to get stronger. They know that lithography is basically the hardest thing in the world so let's do a warm up round of threats to get China ready, then we'll get into Huawei/ZTE sanctions, then do 25% US input limit on third party bans, then escalate to 10%, then we'll go up to ASML EUVL bans, then ASML DUVL bans etc... It's like they don't want to do too much at once because that might be overwhelming; they want to make sure that China's well-adjusted and scientifically caught up and economically insulated for each step before moving forward. If America's government wasn't so full on conflicting interests and incompetence, it would look that way, but realistically, we all know it's just mental retardation and inability to commit.
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
I really like how they always crank it up slowly like they're training China to get stronger. They know that lithography is basically the hardest thing in the world so let's do a warm up round of threats to get China ready, then we'll get into Huawei/ZTE sanctions, then we'll go up to ASML bans, etc... It's like they don't want to do too much at once because that might be overwhelming; they want to make sure that China's well-adjusted and scientifically caught up and economically insulated for each step before moving forward. If America's government wasn't so full on conflicting interests and incompetence, it would look that way, but realistically, we all know it's just mental retardation.
I think its still rooted in racisms... whats the point of going to full nuclear strike (literally and figuratively) if they could get China to surrender without a fight?

They at first were hoping Pompeo's smear campaign against Huawei would mean it would not secure much 5G contracts, when realizing that didnt work they started the sanctions. Trump was hoping screaming on the phone would get the UK to block Huawei, but only when that didnt work did they change the rules based disorder by lowering the de minimus to 1% from 25% thus forcing TSMC to stop fabbing for HiSilicion and finally causing local Uk to renege on the Huawei deal...

They hoped by targeting just the tip of the sword of Chinese national campaigns would be enough to reverse China's tech ambitions and tech ascensions yet China already breakthough 7nm and Google CEO was telling congress the goal was to keep China at above 14nm just a year ago...

It wont be long before they do an all out blanket ban of everything related to chips the whole works

Back 30 years ago they thought it would take China another 300 years to catch up with the West

It was racisms every step of the way that caused them to miscalculate
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Musk saying stuff like this has a big effect. He more than anyone else represent one vision of how US can beat China: for some Tony Stark like guy to come up with "the next big thing" on the level of invention of steam engines or internet. That industry explodes in US and makes a huge amount of money and get them out of the current funk they're stuck in.

Musk in general and SpaceX and Tesla in particular as seen as possible candidates of such new economy paradigm. However the more Musk seems friendly with China the more the big fear American elites have becomes possible: that even if the next big thing is invented by someone in America he might take it with him to China and grow it there, because conditions in China may be more suitable to grow such a new market. You can see this already with Huawei and 5G, DJI with drones and BYD with EVs, they are worried sick about this possibility.

Never mind that the "next big thing" could very well be invented by a Chinese person to start with.

Imagine there's no SpaceX. How do you think Americans would feel right now seeing Tiangong nearly completed and SLS back in the VAB? Shit talking NASA aside the thing that gets them through the day is "that's okay, even if NASA drops the ball we still got SpaceX carrying".
Well Elon-Stark did come up with the first viable mass-market EV and the industry exploded in China, not the US, so if that's the vision, they're going to need cataract surgery.

If there is no SpaceX, the average American would just delude themselves into thinking that they are still number one. I still see people going on about how Huawei is just a copycat company that took advantage of Cisco. Cisco the 5G pioneer!
 
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