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Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
PRC replaced ROC in the UN cause the US indirectly allowed it, by letting its dogs off the leash.
PRC replaced ROC in the UN because the US only 'indirectly allowed it' after tricky parliamentary rules moving the goalpost from 50% to 66% threshold and forcing a 'two China' proposal (which got defeated thankfully) after it became abundantly clear majority of UNGA was in favor PRC admission. It was an fait accompli that no amount of US manipulation or power abuse can overcome.
To save face, the US still had to vote no, but that doesn't mean privately Nixon and Kissinger didn't support PRC replacing ROC.
US pushed aggressively to thwart the majority UNGA vote by shifting the goal posts to a supermajority (66%) rather than a simple majority (50%) and tried a failed attempt at a "Two China" solution, and you are trying to tell me US didn't want to stop PRC from replacing ROC? US didn't vote 'no' to save face, it got it's ass kicked by the democratic will of UNGA over it's unjust exclusion of PRC and just refuses to admit defeat.
Read the first/second-hand biographic materials from Nixon, Kissinger, and Bush regarding this issue if you want further proof.
US mental gymnastics has it always winning even though it experienced "the biggest US defeat in United Nations history" according to one
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. Same in Korean bugout withdrawal, same in Vietnam, and in one day , same with Taiwan conquest.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
PRC replaced ROC in the UN cause the US indirectly allowed it, by letting its dogs off the leash. To save face, the US still had to vote no, but that doesn't mean privately Nixon and Kissinger didn't support PRC replacing ROC. Read the first/second-hand biographic materials from Nixon, Kissinger, and Bush regarding this issue if you want further proof.
OR DIG around at the gratis resources at the Freeman blog:
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Chas W. Freeman, Jr. (USFS, Ret.) is a former diplomat of the U.S. for over 30 years, wrote briefings for Henry Kissinger's secret trips to China, and main interpreter for Richard Nixon in his trip to China.

Nothing happened by chance, standalone good will, Samaritan acts, etc at this level... all are just pork barrel arrangements behind the close doors and other backroom deals.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
  • For all practical purposes the entire Nazi concentration of course in the Donbass is now locked into an operational cauldron.
  • The same is true for the Nazi forces in Mariupol. For them, it’s curtain down, show over.
  • There is a large Nazi force left in only one location: Odessa. It appears that the Russians want to encircle it and then take a final decision on how to deal with this city.
The longer recap is here:
  • On the informational war, the West gave Russia a thorough thrashing: RT and Sputnik are banned everywhere, absolutely insane rumors are circulating (see example below), I know for fact that some US colleges have banned their computers from accessing any .ru or .su websites – yes entire domain names are being shut down – Russian diplomats get assaulted (in one of the 3Bs statelets if I remember correctly).
  • The western PSYOP onslaught is so powerful that even some people in Russia are fearful and sincerely worry “what will happen to us next?!”.
  • Western IT companies are disconnecting, throttling, while “private” western crackers are unleashing DDoS attack on pretty much all the main Russian websites, not only informational ones, but also those who are used to run the civilian infrastructure of Russia. I am not impressed by how much (or little) Russian PR people did to prepare for this which was easy to see coming. Here, again, the West so far is winning, but a huge margin.
  • The western society is displaying its hatred of all things Russian in every way it can: hundereds and maybe thousands of students are summarily expelled from western colleges (which used to be bastions of freedom). In a Swiss city the child of a friend of mine was beat up in school for being an “evil Russian”. Artists are expelled, others pressured to condemn their own country and president, western presstitutes and politicians unceasingly vomit at Russia, Russians and everything Russian!
Which tells me how truly impotent and frustrated they are :)


In other words, the real magnitude of the Ukrainian defeat will become impossible to conceal in just a few days. Then the narrative will shift from the “invincible Ukie Volkssturn” to “Russian atrocities”.


But don’t get too upset too soon. For one thing, the authorities in Russia have FINALLY declared both Dozhd and Meduza as foreign agents and it seems these two zioliberal sewers are finally being shut down. Seeing how Medvedev is trying to repaint himself as a patriot, I think that the Atlantic Integrationists are now realizing that they were stupid to listen to the western propaganda.

( . . . )

One week into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine – update 20220302

So we are a week in and I think it is time to take short pause and see what happened over the last 7 days.

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MixedReality

Junior Member
Registered Member
  • For all practical purposes the entire Nazi concentration of course in the Donbass is now locked into an operational cauldron.
  • The same is true for the Nazi forces in Mariupol. For them, it’s curtain down, show over.
  • There is a large Nazi force left in only one location: Odessa. It appears that the Russians want to encircle it and then take a final decision on how to deal with this city.
The longer recap is here:
  • On the informational war, the West gave Russia a thorough thrashing: RT and Sputnik are banned everywhere, absolutely insane rumors are circulating (see example below), I know for fact that some US colleges have banned their computers from accessing any .ru or .su websites – yes entire domain names are being shut down – Russian diplomats get assaulted (in one of the 3Bs statelets if I remember correctly).
  • The western PSYOP onslaught is so powerful that even some people in Russia are fearful and sincerely worry “what will happen to us next?!”.
  • Western IT companies are disconnecting, throttling, while “private” western crackers are unleashing DDoS attack on pretty much all the main Russian websites, not only informational ones, but also those who are used to run the civilian infrastructure of Russia. I am not impressed by how much (or little) Russian PR people did to prepare for this which was easy to see coming. Here, again, the West so far is winning, but a huge margin.
  • The western society is displaying its hatred of all things Russian in every way it can: hundereds and maybe thousands of students are summarily expelled from western colleges (which used to be bastions of freedom). In a Swiss city the child of a friend of mine was beat up in school for being an “evil Russian”. Artists are expelled, others pressured to condemn their own country and president, western presstitutes and politicians unceasingly vomit at Russia, Russians and everything Russian!
Which tells me how truly impotent and frustrated they are:)


In other words, the real magnitude of the Ukrainian defeat will become impossible to conceal in just a few days. Then the narrative will shift from the “invincible Ukie Volkssturn” to “Russian atrocities”.


But don’t get too upset too soon. For one thing, the authorities in Russia have FINALLY declared both Dozhd and Meduza as foreign agents and it seems these two zioliberal sewers are finally being shut down. Seeing how Medvedev is trying to repaint himself as a patriot, I think that the Atlantic Integrationists are now realizing that they were stupid to listen to the western propaganda.

( . . . )

One week into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine – update 20220302

So we are a week in and I think it is time to take short pause and see what happened over the last 7 days.

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Westerners are showing their true colours for the world to see. Pure hatred of an ethnicity. It’s racial hatred. It is time to move away from anything Western if there is an alternative. West can no longer be trusted.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Again, you don't seem to understand. The UN does what it's most powerful constituents want it to do.
US successfully moved the goalpost from simple majority (50%) to super majority (66%) within the rules of UN Charter by using tricky parliamentary gimmick to thwart the majority, but US did not have veto over the entire democratic will of UNGA. It cannot override UNGA or else what is the difference between UN and League of Nations without rules and preocedures to follow?

The UN isn't some kind of democratic body for countries.
Notice the weasel word "some kind of"?
Yes, strong aspects of democracy is what differeniates the failed League of Nations from the United Nations so it's wildly convenient you use some weasel word to distract from a legitimate mechanism to counterbalance superpower abuse.
It's a treaty between the most powerful countries in the world to not kill each other because it would end humanity as we know it.
Fair enough.
It's called diplomacy.
Hard disagree. US could achieve their objectives with PRC and ROC entering as "Two China" proposal, not necessarily required PRC replacing ROC. It's not a necessary byproduct of "diplomacy" to eject ROC entirely from UN. But guess what, that US attempt to keep ROC inside UN under "Two China " was defeated, so don't tell me US wanted diplomacy by replacing PRC with ROC. It was reluctantly forced to accept it as a fait accompli.
You think 1668 and 2758 just happened out of the good will of the international body?
Yes, literally every single year since 1950, a vote for PRC admission would occur in UNGA requiring a simple majority (50%) and the gap would grow narrower and narrower. from six in favor and 33 opposed in 1950 to 34 in favor and 42 opposed (with 22 more abstaining) in 1960 according to this
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. Without this gradually narrowing of the gap due to international goodwill, US would not have been pressured into moving goalposts to a supermajority (66%). US saw the momentum shifting towards PRC admission each year, and reacted by manipulating the rules to thwart a majority and raising to 66% threshold as well as introduced a failed attempt at a "Two China" solution.
It took years of effort and maneuvering from the PRC. You think it was a coincidence that Nixon visited China shortly after?
Circumstantial evidence at best. It does not prove that the only natural avenue for diplomacy was replacement of ROC by PRC. US tried to push aggressively for a "Two China" solution but got defeated at UNGA.
The recognition of the PRC in the UN was a pre-requisite for normalization of relations with the US.
Hard disagree. US tried to push aggressively for a "Two China" solution but got defeated at UNGA. Don't pretend that US graciously gifted ROC seat to PRC as a pre-requisite for normalization, when it was handed a defeat as a fait accompli by UNGA, despite tripping over it's own dick to fight it till the last minute.
It was all part of the Cold War.
Too simple, too naive. Sino-American reapproachment is only partial explanatory variable, but the shifting of democratic opinion of UNGA played a big role in US eventually accepting PRC admission as a fait accompli. Soviet Union even voted in favor of PRC admission (with US voting no) so why are you exaggerating the Sino-American alliance and Sino-Soviet Split with your Cold war allusion. What US didn't expect was it's last ditch 'Two China' proposal to be defeated. It had no other choice but to accept the ejection of ROC. It didn't do so because it wanted to, it fought aggressively against it till the very minute, but thankfully the UNGA willpower prevailed over US dirty tactics.

I suggest reading this excellent article for full story.


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