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Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Tse said:
Why would you say that Russian activities in Eastern Europe are more imperialist than Chinese reunification of Taiwan and Hong Kong?
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??? There is no equivalent 'Chinese imperialism' with Taiwan/HK because they are Chinese territories. The same cannot be said of Eastern Europe relative to Russia.
  • Ukraine declared independence from Russia/Soviet Union in 1989.
  • Has Taiwan/HK ever declared independence from Chinese Empire? (never)
  • Russia recognized Ukraine independence as a sovereign state.
  • Has China recognized Independence of Taiwan/HK as sovereign state? (Never)
  • Ukraine is widely recognized by United Nations, China, Russia, and all the world powers as an sovereign independent nation.
  • Has the world recognized Taiwan/HK as a sovereign independent nation? (Never)
  • Taiwan/HK are closer to China since they share the exact same ethnicity, whereas Ukrainian is a separate ethnicity from Russia. Polish/Baltics are also separate ethnicity.

Eastern Europe is a sphere of influence of Russia, just like East Asia is a sphere of influence of China. Taiwan/HK is not a sphere of influence, it's literally Chinese territory.
Tse said:
The Balto-Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe are very similar and all of them have histories of trying to unify with their neighbours. I've pointed out previously that states like Poland and Lithuania have annexed vast swathes of the Rus lands before. The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth occupied Moscow repeatedly and tried to create a united Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite commonwealth. The very existence of Belarus originates from the Lithuanian-ruled part of Rus and Ukraine originated from the Polish-ruled Rus. The word Ukraine is simply the generic Russian word for borderland, used in many parts of Russia. Before it was called Ukraine this place was called Little Russia, and even this name was imposed by Polish rule. Originally, nobody distinguished between the Southern/Western Rus and the Eastern/Northern Rus. Even today there is a continuum between the Eastern Ukrainian dialects and the Southern Russian dialects. The Rus capital for the longest time was Kiev. Historically the Ukrainian polity first appeared because the Cossacks (a tiny minority of horseback warriors not representative of ordinary locals in any way), tried to play the Poles, Moscow and the Ottomans off against each other. Eventually they submitted to Moscow and conquered everything from Crimea to Vladivostok. Did you know that with the collapse of Russia in 1917, the new Ukrainian nation claimed Other Manchuria (Green Ukraine) as theirs, together with the whole Russian-Kazakh frontier (Grey and Yellow Ukraine), because the conquering settlers mostly came from Ukraine? The struggle for unification was won by Moscow, so understandably they wanted to standardise the language like Qin Shihuang. Are we calling them imperialist simply because Gorbachev was an idiot and recognised them all when Russia was weak? As far as I can see this is a domestic dispute; I would sooner get involved in US secession squabbles.
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Irredentism based on vague ethnic/racial kinship is precisely what China wants to avoid, because many Chinese territories are open to irredenticist claims based on loose historical or racial ties:
  1. Koreans re-claiming Manchuria or Gando based on Goguryeo
  2. Mongolia re-claiming Inner Mongolia or China based on Mongol empire.
  3. Xinjiang declaring independence based on ethnic/racial kinship with Turkic states
  4. Vietnamese ultranationalists claiming Guangxi-Guangdomg because of historical ties to Nanyue empire.
You can't justify invading or annexing territory based on loose historical claims or ethnic/racial kinship (e.g., irredenticism). Has Chinese forgotten the century of humiliation already?
Tse said:
To be fair, I fully agree that China should not put all its eggs in one basket. Apart from Russophobia driving them to collaborate with the West, a lot of Eastern Europeans are like Hungary and dislike Western European attempts to dictate to them, and China should not push them away by identifying itself too much with Russia and all their historical baggage.
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Good that we can agree on that one.
 
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T

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Overseaschinese said:
Today I was so disgusted about the german commentator at the open ceremony. Before it started I already knew what is coming, but I could never imagined, that would be so bad. Instead of enjoying the show, he always telling the people about the human rights issues and how bad China it is. Sowly I am thinking to move away from the west.
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Just ban German cars in China..
 
PhSt

PhSt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
??? There is no equivalent 'Chinese imperialism' with Taiwan/HK because they are Chinese territories. The same cannot be said of Eastern Europe relative to Russia.
  • Ukraine declared independence from Russia/Soviet Union in 1989.
  • Has Taiwan/HK ever declared independence from Chinese Empire? (never)
  • Russia recognized Ukraine independence as a sovereign state.
  • Has China recognized Independence of Taiwan/HK as sovereign state? (Never)
  • Ukraine is widely recognized by United Nations, China, Russia, and all the world powers as an sovereign independent nation.
  • Has the world recognized Taiwan/HK as a sovereign independent nation? (Never)
  • Taiwan/HK are closer to China since they share the exact same ethnicity, whereas Ukrainian is a separate ethnicity from Russia. Polish/Baltics are also separate ethnicity.

Eastern Europe is a sphere of influence of Russia, just like East Asia is a sphere of influence of China. Taiwan/HK is not a sphere of influence, it's literally Chinese territory.

Irredentism based on vague ethnic/racial kinship is precisely what China wants to avoid, because many Chinese territories are open to irredenticist claims based on loose historical or racial ties:
  1. Koreans re-claiming Manchuria or Gando based on Goguryeo
  2. Mongolia re-claiming Inner Mongolia or China based on Mongol empire.
  3. Xinjiang declaring independence based on ethnic/racial kinship with Turkic states
  4. Vietnamese ultranationalists claiming Guangxi-Guangdomg because of historical ties to Nanyue empire.
You can't justify invading or annexing territory based on loose historical claims or ethnic/racial kinship (e.g., irredenticism). Has Chinese forgotten the century of humiliation already?

Good that we can agree on that one.
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I suspect Phead here has an ulterior motive for constantly pushing his anti Russian narrative at a time when both America and Europe are hell bent on dismembering China into tiny statelets. Present day China has absolutely no border disputes with Russia, unlike its disputes with India, Japan, Vietnam, and other Asean nations. But, its not hard to notice that the subject of border disputes between Imperial Russia and the Qing dynasty which happened over a hundred years ago is constantly and conveniently brought up every time there is a subject topic that involves China and Russia.

As for Ukraine, it is a breakaway territory of Russia that needed to be taken back like how Tibet tried to secede from China in 1913.
 
T

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
I like how India boycotted diplomatically, but then I see there is only one (1) Indian athlete attending the games.:oops:

India should have just said that one Indian athlete was not attending, so it would be a athlete boycott too. It's not like anyone would have cared or noticed.:cool: India performs horribly in the summer and winter Olympics.
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If they don't send athlete, the IOC will ban them, just like the IOC has banned North Korea, for not sending athlete to Japan.
 
V

victoon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
??? There is no equivalent 'Chinese imperialism' with Taiwan/HK because they are Chinese territories. The same cannot be said of Eastern Europe relative to Russia.
  • Ukraine declared independence from Russia/Soviet Union in 1989.
  • Has Taiwan/HK ever declared independence from Chinese Empire? (never)
  • Russia recognized Ukraine independence as a sovereign state.
  • Has China recognized Independence of Taiwan/HK as sovereign state? (Never)
  • Ukraine is widely recognized by United Nations, China, Russia, and all the world powers as an sovereign independent nation.
  • Has the world recognized Taiwan/HK as a sovereign independent nation? (Never)
  • Taiwan/HK are closer to China since they share the exact same ethnicity, whereas Ukrainian is a separate ethnicity from Russia. Polish/Baltics are also separate ethnicity.

Eastern Europe is a sphere of influence of Russia, just like East Asia is a sphere of influence of China. Taiwan/HK is not a sphere of influence, it's literally Chinese territory.

Irredentism based on vague ethnic/racial kinship is precisely what China wants to avoid, because many Chinese territories are open to irredenticist claims based on loose historical or racial ties:
  1. Koreans re-claiming Manchuria or Gando based on Goguryeo
  2. Mongolia re-claiming Inner Mongolia or China based on Mongol empire.
  3. Xinjiang declaring independence based on ethnic/racial kinship with Turkic states
  4. Vietnamese ultranationalists claiming Guangxi-Guangdomg because of historical ties to Nanyue empire.
You can't justify invading or annexing territory based on loose historical claims or ethnic/racial kinship (e.g., irredenticism). Has Chinese forgotten the century of humiliation already?

Good that we can agree on that one.
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But if you look at what Putin has said, the issue is squarely NATO expansion. And that's is What China was supporting Russia for. Not anything specific Russia may or may not do on their own to stop NATO expansion.

Of course Ukraine is a sovereign country. and NATO countries are also sovereign countries. so in theory they should be able to do whatever they'd like to do on their territories.

BUT, NATO was created for the sole purpose of defending against the USSR, which is gone. What's happening is that NATO and Ukraine want to enhance their security, which will jeopardize Russian security. That is still fine.

What the real problem is that the US feel ok to press against Russia on Russian borders but will absolutely not tolerate if Russia (or China for that matter) deploy offensive capabilities anywhere in the western hemisphere (Russia in Cuba (not that Cuba will accept it now), China in west Africa).

that is ultimately the beef between Russia/China and the US: the US will live with nothing but overwhelming security advantage over everyone else!
 
S

semiconprof

New Member
Registered Member
KampfAlwin said:
I’ve never seen such a co-ordinated effort of propaganda than the Western media coverage of the Beijing Olympics. Seriously, many articles covering it are blatantly biased, bringing up unrelated politics! It’s surreal.
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SilentObserver said:
To be honest both left and right wing American media is becoming increasingly cringeworthy, to the point that it's unbearable to consume.

This is very harmful to a well functioning democracy. A well informed and rational public is essential to the stability of the system. As more rational viewers tune out of the mainstream, media will cater towards the increasingly radical left and right.

As Ai Weiwei pointed out, US is entering an era of authoritarianism and radical politics like that during the Cultural Revolution in China.
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These media are like packs of dogs barking and biting at their master's bidding. It became really blatant during the 2016 US presidential election. The world has not been the same ever since. We are living in the post truth era now. Welcome to this brave new world.
 
V

victoon

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have to say this is a pretty weak response. Not the "position of strength" she/they felt when they announced the non-boycott boycott.

It's just downright funny that all China is doing nowadays is, literally, nothing but business and making money with everybody! and in the end China is quietly collecting good will and 'position of strength.'

It's really surprising that diplomacy was supposed to be Biden's strength. But so far what he and his team did to China was nothing but pettiness. If not for the boycott, they wouldn't have given China and Russia, two great powers, the whole stage for this really interesting geo-political moment. Imagine if Blinken was in Beijing, he would have at least stole some thunder/attention.

 
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