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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
First of all, that’s a fundamentally flawed and deliberately petty and condescending interpretation of the Sino-Vietnam war as promoted by the west and Vietnam.

The goals of the Chinese intervention (invasion is the wrong term since China never had any territorial designs on northern Vietnam) were primarily to curbstomp Vietnamese delusions of grandeur and attempts to annex all of South East Asia after their high from driving out the Americans.

Failure to do so early could very easily have resulted in the vastly expanded Vietnam turning their greedy eyes northwards towards China after they had consolidated their hold on SE Asia, especially with Soviet backing and maybe even egging them on.

This was why China deemed it an imperative to deal with Vietnam sooner rather than later, and lso to drive a wedge between the fledging Vietnamese-Soviet partnership by proving the Soviets were not willing to fight and die for their new Vietnamese allies, least that relationship deepened and China gets sandwiched between the Soviets to the north and the new Vietnamese empire to the south, enriched by its new conquests and equipped with the latest in soviet weaponry, at which point China might have faced a two pronged invasion by both looking to re-absorb China into the Soviet lead communist order as a true vassal.

The secondary objective was to relieve Vietnamese military pressure on Chinese allies they were attacking.

With the tertiary objective one of destroying as much as their best and most experienced combat forces and war industries as possible to further de-fang them.

Punitive economic damage was only a peripheral consideration and mainly a by product of the destruction of Vietnamese war industries rather than being the primary aim and goal.



Except it won’t. Nobody expects NATO to fight and die for Ukraine, a non-NATO member. But if Ukraine was admitted to NATO, the organisation would be treaty bound to fight for Ukraine or else face the immediate collapse of the NATO alliance. That is why Ukraine is desperately pushing for NATO membership now, and a pointlessly petty Russian punitive war will only make Ukraine more determined to join to prevent another sub attack.


Two major issues. First, there is no mutual defence pact between NATO and Ukraine to shatter. Attacking Ukraine now would almost certainly lead to the creation of just such a pact.

Secondly, there was zero chance of Vietnam forming an alliance with America as a consequence of the Sino-Vietnam war, but every chance of Ukraine entering just such a pact after. The two are nothing alike.



Just as comparing Ukraine to Taiwan is nonsense, comparing Ukraine to Vietnam also doesn’t make sense.

Any military kinetic action short of total annexation will only strength Ukraine’s desire to join NATO, rather than make them disillusioned with the prospect of getting security assurances from NATO.

Maybe Putin is trying to psych NATO out by showing them in no uncertain terms that NATO expansion to include Ukraine is a red line Russia cannot and will not allow NATO to cross.

But my main issue with that is that it is only a bandaid at best, and does not and cannot address the fundamental core issue of both Ukraine and NATO wanting to join. After the war, Russia will still be in exactly the same position as it is now, with NATO wanting to admit Ukraine despite Russian war threats. So what has Russia achieved?
So what is Russia or in this case Putin and the rest of his leadership team left to do in order for their fear of Ukraine and NATO joining together and basically having NATO pretty much parking at her own backyard? If war isn't the best and most optimum option to prevent that from happening?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia and China are developing together "certain high-tech types of weapons". In space and aircraft areas
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"We are even developing together certain high-tech types of weapons," the president went on to say. "We are working in space, aircraft areas. On planes and helicopters."
The armed forces of the two countries also cooperate, Putin said. "It’s joint exercises, participation in joint international war games, joint patrols at sea and in air," he said. Russia and China have "an absolutely comprehensive partnership of strategic nature," he said.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Two major issues. First, there is no mutual defence pact between NATO and Ukraine to shatter. Attacking Ukraine now would almost certainly lead to the creation of just such a pact.

Secondly, there was zero chance of Vietnam forming an alliance with America as a consequence of the Sino-Vietnam war, but every chance of Ukraine entering just such a pact after. The two are nothing alike.

With the current situation where part of Ukraine is already in a frozen conflict with Russia, I just don't see them joining NATO.

Rationally, the eventual outcome is Russian and NATO troops fighting each other, with escalation up to the nuclear level because Ukrainian neutrality is a core Russian interest. And it's a core Russian interest because Ukraine is less than 500km from Moscow and the rest of the Russian heartland where the vast majority of the population lives. Additionally, there is an emotional attachment to Ukraine due to history and also tribe/race.

With Russia actively in a war with Ukraine, there's absolutely no way that Ukraine will join NATO. It just accelerates the day when the Russian Army and the US Army end up fighting each other, and no one wins from such a scenario.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
View attachment 80251

Must be one really bad nightmare when you see the CCP everywhere you look
Some of these American nut jobs are too paranoid and have bought into the CCP taking over their country shtick because even on a youtube video where it showed a violent home invader getting tagged for an additional 6 years sentence (On top of the 22 years) by the presiding Judge for his threatening outburst in the courtroom. Some of the comments on the video somehow became about how the "ccp is not letting their prisoners out just leaving them in prison to die." Which goes to show how Americans complain about the rise in crime, lax policing blah blah while at the same time would whine and complain when tough sentences are being handed down to guilty criminals.

Then the usual arguments between the idiots of both the loony left and the fascist right ensues. No wonder nothing ever gets done in that country anymore.
 
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