Miscellaneous News

Topazchen said:

I think you don't understand how it works and I hope the people in charge do not have the kind of arrogant attitude you espouse.
As a Kenyan who's lived in the west, travelled extensively in China, it is in China's best interest to counter the west's propaganda blitz. You don't just say that people should not be stupid to believe American propaganda.

China desires good relations and should not be as hard headed as your comment implies. She needs African resources and should open her vast market to African produce while providing scholarships to African students. She should never stop trying to win hearts and minds.

At the same time, Chinese businessmen in Africa should not give the anti Chinese media ammunition to turn the local people against China.

Again as someone who knows a thing or two, I can tell you that Chinese construction here do a good job(and are preferred) but they are also known to be very corrupt. On this I blame the local environment and use of middlemen to win tenders/enter market but I wish the Xi government could clamp down hard on overseas corruption.
The Chinese also don't help with their super secretive loan contracts which is why it is has been very easy to weaponize the debt trap nonsense.
This guy is probably the biggest lawyer in Kenya and listen to what he says. He's the president's lawyer and very close to power.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254499576184274944

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For a supposed Kenyan, your thinking is remarkably western: paternalistic, arrogant as though you speak for all kenyans and assuming "it is known that all chinese contractors are corrupt". Indeed, Missandei, it is known.

Regardless, China isn't in the habit of providing charity, nor are Chinese in the business of boosting the egos of third worlders living in the west; it's like taiwanese living in america thinking they're better than the rest of the taiwanese living in taiwan simply because they speak english and have a house in Rowland Heights.

solarz said:

Are you really that naive or are you being deliberately obtuse? Do you think companies report to Xi personally telling him we bribed so and so?

If a Chinese company was rumored to have bribed a Kenyan official for some project, how do you know it's true? Just because the media reported it? What's the evidence? How would the Chinese authorities gather that evidence? Is the Kenyan government going to let Chinese prosecutors check Kenyan officials' bank accounts to search for discrepancies?

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Dude why are you so angry, and feel the need to resort to insults? We are having a discussion as adults so act like one.

I am strongly pro China and try to give support in any way I can, including buying Chinese company products, donating to social media channels that are pro china.

But I'm not one of those that feel china can do no wrong. That would make me no better than the Jia hind types. I think there a lot of things China can improve, one of which is media and PR.

If you cared to read my original message about this, I think china needs to improve its messaging in Africa or else all the resources and infrastructure good well goes to waste.

The Chinese govt can certainly make Chinese companies not give kick backs, but whether they should is the question. I think they need to play smarter. Whoy not do what western countries do, make a law preventing corruption overseas as a token gesture but not apply it. Gotta fight smart. And also improve their messaging!

Eg. Lots of news articles criticized china for funding coal plants around the world, but once china stoped state funding for coal plants, a study showed that 80% of funding came from private funding from Japan and western nations. Why didn't china make that point more vocal? Why didn't they do their research? That's my concern. That's my opinion.

Topazchen said:

I think you don't understand how it works and I hope the people in charge do not have the kind of arrogant attitude you espouse.
As a Kenyan who's lived in the west, travelled extensively in China, it is in China's best interest to counter the west's propaganda blitz. You don't just say that people should not be stupid to believe American propaganda.

China desires good relations and should not be as hard headed as your comment implies. She needs African resources and should open her vast market to African produce while providing scholarships to African students. She should never stop trying to win hearts and minds.

At the same time, Chinese businessmen in Africa should not give the anti Chinese media ammunition to turn the local people against China.

Again as someone who knows a thing or two, I can tell you that Chinese construction here do a good job(and are preferred) but they are also known to be very corrupt. On this I blame the local environment and use of middlemen to win tenders/enter market but I wish the Xi government could clamp down hard on overseas corruption.
The Chinese also don't help with their super secretive loan contracts which is why it is has been very easy to weaponize the debt trap nonsense.
This guy is probably the biggest lawyer in Kenya and listen to what he says. He's the president's lawyer and very close to power.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254499576184274944

Click to expand...

We'll have to concede on the point that China simply doesn't have strong enough infrastructure to go toe to toe with Western media outlets, or media in general based on Western models and ideas, particularly in English language medium. It's just common sense.

What else should be brought up though to contest is the point that your views are mostly based on developed rich countries' mores and concerns; you just happen to have those mores and concerns directly transplanted into your thinking without having engaged your own observation and thinking process in gear. Most business and economics writings are from Western institutions, or people based in Western institutions and learning. What they dictate in those media and textbooks have a significant amount of historical amnesia; they failed to mention how corrupt their histories were when they were at comparable development stage.
Just google American history of corruption, or that of any other developed countries, or how many unplugged dry wells are in US energy industry as of now. You can couch it in under lobbying and financial engineering but a corruption is a corruption, regardless of how you call it. You cannot escape this stage of corruption in Kenya relative to its development stage. That's a historical fact. The severity of corruption depends a lot on each country's specific conditions on the ground. It's this specific set of conditions on the ground that tells each country how they'd manage to get their country developed, not a set of conditions what Western econ or business experts prescribe for you. Try to name a set of Western prescribed econ rules that guide the actual workings of China's spectacular economic rise and you will find yourself wanting a bit of serious explanation why almost none of them would give you a coherent set of answers. That's the difference what makes China China; for all the accusations of copying, she doesn't copy systems down to nuts and bolts; she has her own observations and prescriptions to solve her own unique set of problems, hence, the Chinese way to everything and anything. So should Kenya likewise if she really wants to be a developed country, not be a talking point dressed in Western mores and concerns, but in your own Kenya's mores and concerns and ground realities. You can blame China all day long every day and Kenya still would be in worse shape if not for China's investment.

KenC said:

There will always be corruptions and under table dealings in developing countries, and it is not only confined to Africa or Kenya.
It is truly up to the elite class to deal with it, but when your system is established in such a way to facilitate corrupted transactions, then it just become a matter of who is less corrupted and and still get the job done. The problem is worse if the core (ruling elite) is highly corrupted. It is good governance and not democracy that is required. Blaming Chinese is convenient for the currently marginalized part of the establishment to court public opinion but when they are in power, they are no different.

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Totally agree that the onus is on host country to regulate their tolerance for corruption. Corruption exist even in countries such as the United States in the form of influential lobbyist benefiting both the lobby sponsors and politically connected elites.

Also remember that China herself failed to regulate corruption until recently under Xi. Previously, China had to tolerate some level of corruption to get things done to benefit the general public. If China had remained dogmatic in pursuing the cultural revolution ideals, China would still be stuck in 1970's China.

It is up to Kenya to decide how they want to serve their people and country.

hashtagpls said:

American arms sales agent John Bolton said Russians have to join with the anglos against China because Muh White Supremacy

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That guy is retarded given the amount of harm the USA has done to Russia and they still expect Russia to support them against China when it is convenient. Maybe he should seriously check into a mental home because he seems to really need a nanny to look after his failing brain

MortyandRick said:

Dude why are you so angry, and feel the need to resort to insults? We are having a discussion as adults so act like one.

I am strongly pro China and try to give support in any way I can, including buying Chinese company products, donating to social media channels that are pro china.

But I'm not one of those that feel china can do no wrong. That would make me no better than the Jia hind types. I think there a lot of things China can improve, one of which is media and PR.

If you cared to read my original message about this, I think china needs to improve its messaging in Africa or else all the resources and infrastructure good well goes to waste.

The Chinese govt can certainly make Chinese companies not give kick backs, but whether they should is the question. I think they need to play smarter. Whoy not do what western countries do, make a law preventing corruption overseas as a token gesture but not apply it. Gotta fight smart. And also improve their messaging!

Eg. Lots of news articles criticized china for funding coal plants around the world, but once china stoped state funding for coal plants, a study showed that 80% of funding came from private funding from Japan and western nations. Why didn't china make that point more vocal? Why didn't they do their research? That's my concern. That's my opinion.

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Moving the goal post now? This is what you said:

MortyandRick said:

I meant if Xi tell these companies to NOT give kick backs. Yes he does have the power, all governments have power to control their companies, the will to use those powers are a different story.

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I asked you how exactly would he be able to do this, and now you're saying just pass a law and not enforce it?

As for PR, which platform is China supposed to push its own narrative? Twitter? Youtube? Facebook?

The problem with your position is that it's just a bunch of unrealistic nonsense. You think China doesn't know how disadvantaged it is in the global media forum? You think you're the only one who's smart enough to know this? Oh yeah, just improve the message, that'll solve everything!

Or maybe you're still under the illusion that Western media platforms are content neutral, that the reason China's narrative can't compete with the Western narrative is because Chinese PR sucks. Nothing to do with the fact that Youtube demonetizes and throttles pro-China content creators, or the fact that Twitter shuts down pro-China accounts under the guise of closing "bot accounts", or the fact that they all put big bold "state sponsored media" tags under any Chinese media organization or any Chinese journalist account?

I'm not angry, I'm just annoyed, because you're just the latest in a long line of newbies who think they know the magic solution.

hashtagpls said:

American arms sales agent John Bolton said Russians have to join with the anglos against China because Muh White Supremacy

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Complete butt hurt.

Cannot win, start imagining things.

solarz said:

Moving the goal post now? This is what you said:



I asked you how exactly would he be able to do this, and now you're saying just pass a law and not enforce it?

As for PR, which platform is China supposed to push its own narrative? Twitter? Youtube? Facebook?

The problem with your position is that it's just a bunch of unrealistic nonsense. You think China doesn't know how disadvantaged it is in the global media forum? You think you're the only one who's smart enough to know this? Oh yeah, just improve the message, that'll solve everything!

Or maybe you're still under the illusion that Western media platforms are content neutral, that the reason China's narrative can't compete with the Western narrative is because Chinese PR sucks. Nothing to do with the fact that Youtube demonetizes and throttles pro-China content creators, or the fact that Twitter shuts down pro-China accounts under the guise of closing "bot accounts", or the fact that they all put big bold "state sponsored media" tags under any Chinese media organization or any Chinese journalist account?

I'm not angry, I'm just annoyed, because you're just the latest in a long line of newbies who think they know the magic solution.

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You sound pretty angry to me, which is fine. You're entitled to feel mad just as I'm entitled to not care.

I'll keep this short because arguing with you doesn't add any substance to this forum or topic.

How am I moving the goal post? My original post in this clearly stated

MortyandRick said:

In the end I feel the main issue is not just stopping corruption but also improving messaging and media in Africa.

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Ive been consistent with my point. It's hasn't changed.

solarz said:

I asked you how exactly would he be able to do this, and now you're saying just pass a law and not enforce it?

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You asked how and I told you what I think. Is it gonna work? Maybe, maybe not but it's a lot better than doing the same old PR thing that china has been doing and expecting a different result. It's like in the early 1990s and 2000s, china made token laws on copyright infringements but with patchy enforcement. That way it appeased enough in the West and allowed china to upgrade their technology.

It's easy to blame Americans social media putting china at a disadvantage and that is true, but that's why china has to work harder to find new ways to promote their messaging and not give up. Like Huawei is doing in spite of US sanctions. When the US talks about Huawei spying, china should constantly bring up PRISM and the CLOUD act in every foreign department response during that time. Huawei openly mentioned it at a mobile technology conference and I think it was impactful.

I'm not gonna sit here and yell that everything they do is great, they do most things very well, but no one is perfect. I still feel that china needs to work on its approach to messaging and change up their strategy in this regard.

Case in point, their current strategy of releasing those videos and pictures of the Galwan conflict is very effective. And I'm glad their are adapting and changing their PR strategies. Wouldn't you agree?

And I for one hope they continue to adjust and adapt as the situation changes. I'd like to see a china news channels having more international influence than CTGN has right now. I think it's definitely doable.

Anyhow I've said what I wanted to say regarding this issue.

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At long last, those Canadians are going in the event they start this stupid fight to taste some serious pain for once so that the natives and the children that have been slaughtered in those so called schools in Canada can final have some kind of vengeance done in their name. This is long overdue as the Canadians keep on harping against China about human rights while committing atrocities in the name of the usa, it’s time they finally suffered some real tangible consequences given how much of a traitorous hypocrite Justin treadeau is