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hifisnow

New Member
Registered Member
This has nothing to do with my point. I made a specific point, which was that forcefully removing their emperor is the same colonialism people cry about. I can understand their shrine to their WWII dead but not removing an institution that has existed longer than most.

Making them a complete vassal? Good lord, talk about try-hard. When you grow up or spend time in the west you develop weird thoughts like this. Even at the height of China's power in the past they didn't have vassals but tributary states. There's nothing 'realist' about creating enemies in your periphery and potential future time bombs. I hope, for China's sake, the future leadership remain grounded and don't let power get to their heads and they succumb to the temptation of adventurism.
I'm sorry but this is just a braindead point. If I shot you and you fight back and take away my gun, you are in the wrong by this logic. You are just throwing around words with no meaning. This is not twitter, don't try to gaslight people.

I can not predict the future, but Japan is already a total vassal of the US, quite literally. I don't think you really understand how much of a cuck in every possible way Japan is to US. If US can do that, China can do that better if that time comes. I too hope things will be resolved peacefully but the Japanese fascists' stupidity can never be underestimated.
 

Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm sorry but this is just a braindead point. If I shot you and you fight back and take away my gun, you are in the wrong by this logic. You are just throwing around words with no meaning. This is not twitter, don't try to gaslight people.

I can not predict the future, but Japan is already a total vassal of the US, quite literally. I don't think you really understand how much of a cuck in every possible way Japan is to US. If US can do that, China can do that better if that time comes. I too hope things will be resolved peacefully but the Japanese fascists' stupidity can never be underestimated.
I'm not interested in Gen Z style debates. Throwing around words like "gaslighting" doesn't mean you have an argument. My point is clear: if China decides on adventurism then it's in for a tough time and it will lose the good will it has spent time building. It is as simple and incontestable as that.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
You mean becoming like the colonial monstrosity you moan about? Their emperor is a mascot at this point but a vital part of their history, it's for them to decide to get rid if they want to and not an outside force. If you try to destroy part of their culture you'll just create hostile neighbors and you'll end up like Russia. China has grown to become a powerful country in its own way using noninterference, it doesn't need to sink to the level of the ethnic European.
Exactly who is China trying to impress? Atlanticist European middle class sensibilities who are secretly happy that Asians are killing each other?
If China determines the annexation of the Japanese islands and the destruction of Japanese nationhood to be in the national interest then so be it; the empire of Japan should have followed the same footsteps as the xiongnu and the khitans.

Is this the video you're referring to? I normally don't watch Victor debating against Indian elite but I did this time.

This is the arrogance of India elites. They say china can't be trusted because china wants to dominate Asia. What that really means is that India thought they were gonna dominate Asia, but they lost to china.

See how the Indian speaker talks about India being a democracy and how since it's a democracy, naturally US and Western democracies are better suited to be India's partners? Lol they still strive for western acceptance, even when western countries reject India.

I did feel that victor gao did not do well in this interview. There were so many instance where he could have called out the hypocrisy from that Indian speaker.

Eg. The Indian guy said India helped China get the permanent seat on the security Council, and when Victor gao stated that it was acctually the blood sweat and tears of millions of Chinese, the Indian laughed it off as "china version of history". But when Victor mentioned how trump should get the peace prize for stopping the war between Indian and Pakistan, the Indian got mad and denied it. I think Victor should have call out the Indian version of history, which is vastly different from real history.
victor gao was being diplomatic as a reflection of current PRC policy to appear to be magnanimous towards India even as it attempts to suck up to the Anglos despite being beaten by them.


Excellent if she does.

Japanese military might, while certainly credible on a global level, is basically an irrelevance in terms of a superpower clash between China and America. Not even the Japanese themselves are delusional enough to think their involvement would magically tip the balance in America’s favour.

The kind of idiotic slave animal mentality needed to proactively push to make your country and collective race essentially grave goods for your foreign overlords funeral is beyond contemptible.

If Japan does stick its nose into a Taiwan conflict, the very best outcome they could realistically hope to expect is to be de-nazified and ruled over by China with a PLA occupation force instead of the American one they will be kicking out.

If China was feeling less charitable and wanted to make it into a teachable moment, they can expect to be stripped back to their core islands (maybe not even that, as the Cuban Guantanamo model will also serve) in terms of territory, be thoroughly deindustrialised via explosive decommissioning of its industry, and hope China is charitable enough to leave enough of its power and transport infrastructure left to allow a semblance of normal life to resume after.

But what is actually more likely is that America will be unsatisfied after China’s lightening takeover of Taiwan and obliteration of its and Japan’s expeditionary forces and instead try to turn Japan into an Eastern Ukraine. They will seek to bolster Japanese homeland defences while simultaneously mounting harassment attacks against Chinese targets from Japanese soil hoping to goad China into a ground invasion of Japan, so they can defeat the PLA in ‘proper’ face to face fighting rather than the ‘weak’ and ‘dishonourable’ Chinese way of obliterating their planes and ships wholesale at extended ranges with swarms of PL15/16/17s and hypersonics.

They might think they are being clever and thinking outside of the box, but a modern Operation Downfall has been a key unspoken objective of the PLAN modernisation for literally decades. What do you think all of the PLAN’s LPDs, LHDs and now LHAs are for? Taiwan? Ha! That would be like buying a top of the line premium motorhome to go camping in your back garden.

Indeed, I would go as far as to say that if it really happened and Japan and America militarily intervened in a Taiwan conflict, the first thing China will do is from a broader geopolitical standpoint is to force South Korea to show its cards immediately.

China will not tolerate a similar situation to Ukraine where ostensibly neutral 3rd parties are actively operating as part of opfor kill chains at extreme close range and immune from retaliation. SK’s choice at that point is to basically kick out the Americans and actively flip to China’s side, or get annihilated by a combined NK and PLA firestorm to pave the way for the full scale invasion of the Japanese home islands.

As strategically speaking, SK is the perfect launchpad for an invasion of the Japanese home islands for China, since PLA air and missile power can make the Sea of Japan a no man’s land for Japanese and American naval and air forces, while the PLAN will own the East China Sea to feed in naval forces for both escorts and the amphibious fleets. Especially after the PLAN has secured key parts of the Ryukyu islands as bulwark against hostile naval incursions into the second island chain. That would basically be the mid-tier acceptable victory conduction for China in a AR scenario involving direct and open combat with American and allied forces.
Don’t forget Australia as well; the Pine Gap facility will be used to coordinate communications as part of the kill chain. A IRBM there should put paid to that but expect to also have to conquer Australia as well in the third act.


This is like when deepseek first debuted, the western spy agencies mounted 24/7 cyber attacks on the website and tech company.
 

Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
Are people not reading and understanding?

I didn't say China shouldn't slap them up if they attacked China, I made a post specifically about abolishing the institution.
No you don't understand Japan and East Asian history. You like to school people on African history, but you badly need schooling in East Asian history.

Japanese militarism and fascism is centered around their Imperial Institution. The Japanese believe that their emperors are a descendant of the sun goddess Amaterasu. Unlike other imperial houses in East Asia, it had been the same continuous dynasty since the first Japanese emperor in 660 BC. So the Japanese emperor is literally worshipped as a diving figure. The Japanese emperor is the leader of Shintoism. The Yasukuni shrine is Shinto. Japanese fascism is steeped in Shintoism. They promote the idea that the Japanese people are a divine, superior race. Japanese fascism could metastasize so quickly because it is an ethno-religious-state thing. This is difficult to understand from a Western lens.

Japan had never went through its own "denazification". Yes, there was much repenting by many individual Japanese, but as a nation, Japan had never actually repented. The state chose to deny their WWII crimes, ostensibly to preserve the dignity of the Imperial Institution. Instead they have revised history to portray the old Imperial Japan more as a victim than the villain. They pushed the blame of any "regrettable aggression" to the military, mostly to the IJA and the Kwantung Army. They were apologetic for fighting with the US and the Western allies, but were far less so for fighting the Chinese and Koreans. The most recent narrative of Japanese history school textbooks say that Imperial Japan was actually trying to "civilize" East Asia, but got carried away and fought the Western Allies.

Today, when enough of the old folks who had seen the horrors of WWII have passed, the nationalists, politicians, and revisionist academics are gaining more influence. The Emperor is still there, state Shinto is still there, and they are trying to rekindle nostalgia for Imperial Japan. Unfortunately, this nonsense is gaining traction because the average Japanese today had been badly misinformed about Japan's true WWII history. Plus there is that anti-PRC propaganda machine (by the nationalists and Americans) that gives them the impression that the CCP is the biggest monster of East Asia. They routinely deflect the ugliest Japanese WWII war crimes to the CCP. Hence the Japanese people are being primed for a possible war with China.

The Chinese have been very tolerant with Japan. We were grudgingly prepared to accept that Japan had changed for the better while still being able to retain its Imperial Institution. But that assumption had been erroneous. The American-led West have domesticated fascism after WWII. When it is convenient, they'll unleash it against their rivals. The West have unleashed the Banderites against the Russians in Ukraine. And they are attempting the same thing with Japan.

The Chinese will never tolerate a return of Japanese fascism. If Japan wants to intervene in Taiwan, this will be interpreted as imperial intervention. It shows to the Chinese people that Japan had returned to its old self, trying to reopen the old wounds of the Treaty of Shimonoseki. If Japan is willing to fight China over its reunification with Taiwan, then the Japanese Imperial Institution cannot be trusted to remain. If the Chinese can let go of its millennia-old Imperial Institution, so can the Japanese. Japan had its second chance, but if it chooses to squander it, then things cannot be the same again.
 
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Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
No you don't understand Japan and East Asian history. You like to school people on African history, but you badly need schooling in East Asian history.

Japanese militarism and fascism is centered around their Imperial Institution. The Japanese believe that their emperors are a descendant of the sun goddess Amaterasu. Unlike other imperial houses in East Asia, it had been the same continuous dynasty since the first Japanese emperor in 660 BC. So the Japanese emperor is literally worshipped as a diving figure. The Japanese emperor is the leader of Shintoism. The Yasukuni shrine is Shinto. Japanese fascism is steeped in Shintoism. They promote the idea that the Japanese people are a divine, superior race. Japanese fascism could metastasize so quickly because it is an ethno-religious-state thing. This is difficult to understand from a Western lens.

Japan had never went through its own "denazification". Yes, there was much repenting by many individual Japanese, but as a nation, Japan had never actually repented. The state chose to deny their WWII crimes, ostensibly to preserve the dignity of the Imperial Institution. Instead they have revised history to portray the old Imperial Japan more as a victim than the villain. They pushed the blame of any "regrettable aggression" to the military, mostly to the IJA and the Kwantung Army. They were apologetic for fighting with the US and the Western allies, but were far less so for fighting the Chinese and Koreans. The most recent narrative of Japanese history school textbooks say that Imperial Japan was actually trying to "civilize" East Asia, but got carried away and fought the Western Allies.

Today, when enough of the old folks who had seen the horrors of WWII have passed, the nationalists, politicians, and revisionist academics are gaining more influence. The Emperor is still there, state Shinto is still there, and they are trying to rekindle nostalgia for Imperial Japan. Unfortunately, this nonsense is gaining traction because the average Japanese today had been badly misinformed about Japan's true WWII history. Plus there is that anti-PRC propaganda machine (by the nationalists and Americans) that gives them the impression that the CCP is the biggest monster of East Asia. They routinely deflect the ugliest Japanese WWII war crimes to the CCP. Hence the Japanese people are being primed for a possible war with China.

The Chinese have been very tolerant with Japan. We were prepared to accept that Japan had changed for the better while still being able to retain its Imperial Institution. But that assumption had been erroneous. The Americans have domesticated fascism after WWII. When it is convenient, they'll unleash it against their rivals. The Americans have unleashed the Banderites against the Russians in Ukraine. And they are attempting the same thing with Japan.

The Chinese will never tolerate a return of Japanese fascism. If Japan wants to intervene in Taiwan, this will be interpreted as imperial intervention. It shows to the Chinese people that Japan had returned to its old self, trying to reopen the old wounds of the Treaty of Shimonoseki. If Japan is willing to fight China over its reunification with Taiwan, then the Japanese Imperial Institution cannot be trusted to remain. If the Chinese can let go of its millennia-old Imperial Institution, so can the Japanese.
I don't need to be school on any Asian history, and my point wasn't about Asian history. Any foreign power that comes in and removes a cultural institution will be treated antagonistically. It doesn't matter whether it's Asia, Africa, or planet Krypton.
 

Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
I don't need to be school on any Asian history, and my point wasn't about Asian history. Any foreign power that comes in and removes a cultural institution will be treated antagonistically. It doesn't matter whether it's Asia, Africa, or planet Krypton.
You need to be schooled, because you are imposing your distorted views on a sensitive topic for East Asia. You like to lecture people here about your "African" sensitivities, so be prepared to take some heat when you touch on East Asian sensitivities. The fact that you replied so casually like this reveals your arrogance and distorted sense of self-importance.
 

Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
You need to be schooled, because you are imposing your distorted views on a sensitive topic for East Asia. You like to lecture people here about your "African" sensitivities, so be prepared to take some heat when you touch on East Asian sensitivities. The fact that you replied so casually like this reveals your arrogance and distorted sense of self-importance.
I'm imposing nothing, that's your emotions talking. I get it's a sensitive topic but the outcome will be the same if certain actions are carried out. Bringing up "African sensitivities" has nothing to do with the debate.

My arrogance and distorted sense of self-importance? Don't make me laugh. You're advocating the overthrow of an institution from the safety of your basement. The current Chinese leadership understands the stupidity of doing that, they're too busy running a successful country to throw it all away. Western born Chinese are trying to play empire.
 

Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
This! I just met an elderly retired school headmistress and she was quite distraught and disillusioned with everything that's happening in recent months in Malaysia. She feels that there is no longer any hope for non malays. I was quite surprised as she has always been a very loyal malaysian who insists that no matter the bad things happening in Malaysia, it still is a very good country that takes care of it's people. I guess if people like her are worried and disillusioned, then things have become really bad.
Yes. Many boomers who once had hope for Malaysia are disillusioned. Many blame Anwar and the current government. However this is not entirely correct. Anwar's government is a victim of circumstances, not the cause. The current government is a unity government led by Anwar. Among them is UMNO, the old top dog Malay supremacist party. Why did they decided to join forces? Because Anwar's coalition doesn't have enough seats. Why not enough seats? Because the Malay majority, especially the youths overwhelmingly voted for the other side. And the other side wants to form a Malay-Muslim supremacist government. Its like allying with a demon to protect yourself against an even worse horde of demons.

So Anwar had to make many compromises to UMNO to avoid collapsing his government. Compromises that infringes on the rights of non-Malays. This unfortunately alienates many non-Malays who had voted for the Anwar-led coalition. Anwar is trying his best to lead Malaysia into a better future, while he is still in power. I can see his long term vision, but unfortunately too many voting Malaysians could not. They were led by myopic issues like race equality. There was this recent controversy about some Malaysian Chinese scholars who were not being given quota to enter into Malaysian public universities. If find the controversy hype to be quite idiotic because the quality of Malaysian public universities have drastically declined. In the end, one of those scholars got a scholarship to study in a much better Singaporean university. But this controversy had been used to slam Anwar's government for reneging on its promises to the non-Malays. I can understand their frustration, but they have been unable to see the bigger picture.

All I can say is that the people who have turned on Anwar now are gonna miss the times when he was in power. Because what's likely to come next is a Malay Muslim Hindutva-style government led by the Islamist PAS. When Malaysia crosses that line, I don't think they can turn back. The Malay population is now the dominant majority, and most of them want Malay Muslim supremacy. They don't care about the economy, corruption, or social harmony, they only care that they are on top. This would ensure plenty of long term votes for idiot bigoted politicians as long as they say the right words. Just like what is happening in Hindutva India. This is why electoral democracy actually sucks in practice.

That retired headmistress and myself had once thought that Malaysia could escape he race-religion politics and move forward to a new future. Well, we were wrong.
 
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Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
I'm imposing nothing, that's your emotions talking. I get it's a sensitive topic but the outcome will be the same if certain actions are carried out. Bringing up "African sensitivities" has nothing to do with the debate.

My arrogance and distorted sense of self-importance? Don't make me laugh. You're advocating the overthrow of an institution from the safety of your basement. The current Chinese leadership understands the stupidity of doing that, they're too busy running a successful country to throw it all away. Western born Chinese are trying to play empire.
Lol! Read your own messages. Its full of arrogance and self-importance. Why are you replying to me if I'm just a Western-born Chinese trying to play empire from my basement?

Again, you're so arrogantly myopic. Nobody here is calling for China to go out of its way to dismantle the Japanese Imperial Institution for no good reason. Yet the roots of Japanese imperialism stems from its Imperial Institution. China can forgive but they can never forget. Therefore, the fate of this Institution is purely Japan's choice. If Japan can coexist with China peacefully, then fine, nothing happens. But if Japan chooses to return to the road of imperial aggression on China, then China must finish the fight. Lest there will be more tragedies over the horizon.

You are shouting from your basement about what China can and cannot do. You didn't even bother to understand the histories and institutions in East Asia. Yet you saw fit to impose your shallow ideals on the Chinese? You claim to feel the pain of the Africans under Western imperialism. Then why could you so casually dismiss the pain that the Chinese and Koreans felt under Japanese imperialism? You dare call us keyboard imperialists? Aren't you a hypocrite?
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The Japanese emperor was sole responsible for all the warcrimes committed on Chinese territory and he got away because the US rewrote history by portraying him as powerless actor when he clearly wasn’t. A lot of people think American is the reason why Japan is literally a degenerate nation that even makes overseas otakus disgusted but it has been historically because it's literally tradition. The Tales of Genji is a very famous ancient Japanese novel and it involves the main character being a pedo as it was japanese culture at the time and still somewhat is today.
View attachment 162084
View attachment 162085

Yeah. Imagine if Hitler got away with it and still got to rule Germany after WWII… No wonder there is no remorse for the Japanese about atrocities committed all over Asia.
 
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