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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
GZDRefugee said:
Someone who sees it the way I do!

The question is how. At the moment, China can't do much beyond economic pressure. Perhaps an under-the-table deal with Trump to goad him into moving forwards with his Greenland ambitions? Force Europe into managing two separate fronts while the raw inputs needed to ramp up defence production are cut off?
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Europe's economy is shambolic and it's only going to get worse. With Trump, Russia and China teaming up to enact economic pressure (export of energy just one of them) on EU, it would implode.

I reiterate, game theory is very simple. EU will always side with the US against China, just wait for the next Democrat to do an Obama-style apology tour and joint China-containment agenda would continue. So if they are always going to side with the US, why not take this golden opportunity and smash it?

No need to be visible though, China can always be the knife in the dark. Let Trump lead his megaphone diplomacy and start sanctioning EU, let EU "defend" Ukraine and provoke Russia and then massively provide weaponry to Putin to bleed and kill EU in Ukraine.

In the meantime, when Trump tariffs EU, China should also jointly tariff EU, digital market rules, environment rules, etc, just find an excuse. In the same time, let Trump threaten nations which export energy into the EU and further sanction EU energy imports.
Wouldn't be surprised if EU imploded within a single year.

You think that it's impossible for EU to crumble so easily? There is a reason why the world's biggest fear ain't US or China being hegemon. Their greatest fear is a G2 arrangement where they could unite forces to deal with someone. Now throw Russia into the mix and it's gg. Just a temporary joining of hands ofc, no permanent alliance

It all depends on diplomacy though, China shouldn't appear at any circumstances to be provoking fights. Just stage a good enough victim and righteous show. Let Trump and Putin do the dirty work
 
T

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
pmc said:
Russia air/ground power is second to None. you can only get this picture by studying Arabic Soft power which EU is not paying attention. Perhaps EU should directly ask Arabs. Russian have made life easier for them by releasing so much material in Arabic but the dense minds of EU cannot understand it after three years.
Russia is doing so much more than just defeating Ukraine so the duration of war is not measurement of effectiveness of combat performance. and that so much more is more than most people realize.
This Russia infrastructure minister who did Early Feb visit to Russian controlled Ukraine to see the progress of reconstruction.
but few weeks later met Uzbek President to discuss construction sector. That Russian minister not just deal with Construction he deals with Muslim conferences and much more to transform the region through North-South. the Hard and Soft power of that one religion is on the ground in Ukraine. its a Permanent knock out punch.
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Russia has the industrial capacity to fight a grinding war and the nuclear deterrence to make sure that no one will attack that industrial capacity.
 
GZDRefugee

GZDRefugee

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
Europe's economy is shambolic and it's only going to get worse. With Trump, Russia and China teaming up to enact economic pressure (export of energy just one of them) on EU, it would implode.

I reiterate, game theory is very simple. EU will always side with the US against China, just wait for the next Democrat to do an Obama-style apology tour and joint China-containment agenda would continue. So if they are always going to side with the US, why not take this golden opportunity and smash it?

No need to be visible though, China can always be the knife in the dark. Let Trump lead his megaphone diplomacy and start sanctioning EU, let EU "defend" Ukraine and provoke Russia and then massively provide weaponry to Putin to bleed and kill EU in Ukraine.

In the meantime, when Trump tariffs EU, China should also jointly tariff EU, digital market rules, environment rules, etc, just find an excuse. In the same time, let Trump threaten nations which export energy into the EU and further sanction EU energy imports.
Wouldn't be surprised if EU imploded within a single year.

You think that it's impossible for EU to crumble so easily? There is a reason why the world's biggest fear ain't US or China being hegemon. Their greatest fear is a G2 arrangement where they could unite forces to deal with someone. Now throw Russia into the mix and it's gg. Just a temporary joining of hands ofc, no permanent alliance

It all depends on diplomacy though, China shouldn't appear at any circumstances to be provoking fights. Just stage a good enough victim and righteous show. Let Trump and Putin do the dirty work
Click to expand...
Garden vs jungle. My money's on the side with teeth and claws.
 
S

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
H

Hyper

Junior Member
Registered Member
GulfLander said:
The interviewer kinda looked uncomfortable...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895688890398503032
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895739324257235366

....
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895769880462573582
....
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895704190804246711
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She has literally zero power. Foreign policy in EU is controlled by a combination of large corporations. If they feel they need to pivot then these bureaucrats have to get out of the way. Always has been like that. If they had any power EU would be more powerful than the current disunity. VW and Total probably have more say than any diplomat.
 
H

Hyper

Junior Member
Registered Member
GulfLander said:
The interviewer kinda looked uncomfortable...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895688890398503032
.....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895739324257235366

....
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895769880462573582
....
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895704190804246711
Click to expand...
Everything hinges on tariffs. If tariffs go through then VW, BASF, Total will force policy changes without concerns of any diplomats. EU was created as an extension of ECC. It is a trade union first and foremost. I will definitely see a lot of changes in EU leadership. She will probably be replaced.
 
Randomuser

Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
Santamaria said:
The best way is to play the split of European Union, that is the final nail to the centro european industry, I say as a Spanish with no love for them.

China just need to earse Germany as a possible competitor, and for that nothing better than take away countries away from their control.

For example, why as I spanish I have to pay 30% tariffs in chinese cars. I want to buy chinese cars since they are cheap. I dont want to support high salaries in German industry paying overpriced cars. (I know what I talk about I worked there and in Switzerland).

China should keep competition with Germany in the world, should put tariffs to German cars similar to the ones the EU impose in them and should try to break countries like Spain, Portugal or Greece from the common market and add them to kind of a Chinese consumer market.

Eastern European states should be given to Russia (and across Russia anyway they are in Chinese market) and let the US remain controlling France, Germany, Netherlands..

Basically China needs to promote tensions within the EU, and that is notoriously easy, you just need to read a bit of European history to understand the different breaking points

But with China having each time more technology and better products
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It sounds harsh. But at this point, the time for letting them off is done. One year ago Europe was yapping so loud like a Chihuahua and now they suddenly want to make good with China? By doing that they have showed they have absolutely no sincerity. They would be more honorable being full blown Nazis at this point because they will at least be honest.

When they decided to support Taiwan independence and other movements against China despite it being not their business, it showed what they truly are. When they beg China to help, they are deep down mocking it while waiting for the next senile democrat Joe Biden to come to power to write them a blank cheque.

Next time they wont be able to weasel their way out since all the exit routes will be sealed off.
 
I

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
chlosy said:
Predict:
Zelensky resigns
Ukraine talks directly to Russia
Why talk to Russia via the US and Europe? They are only looking out for themselves.
No NATO for Ukraine ever
Occupied territories become autonomous regions of Ukraine.
Russian language recognized as another official language in Ukraine.
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Yeah that boat has sailed.
As the Chinese saying goes: one cannot take on the negotiating table what one cannot take by force.

If Trump actually halt weapons, which is questionable, but if he does, Ukraine is done and Donbas is the least of their problems.

Remember Russia had 3 objectives for their SMO and they're still sticking to it: De-militarization, De-nazification and Donbass.
Donbas is just one of the three, demilitarization means total disarment and Russian control of military, and de-nazification means elimination of all pro-west entities.

The best Ukraine can hope for is they're still officially a country instead of a Russian oblast.
 
I

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
GZDRefugee said:
Someone who sees it the way I do!

The question is how. At the moment, China can't do much beyond economic pressure. Perhaps an under-the-table deal with Trump to goad him into moving forwards with his Greenland ambitions? Force Europe into managing two separate fronts while the raw inputs needed to ramp up defence production are cut off?
Click to expand...
Economic pressure from China and destruction of European industry is more than enough and arguably the most effective way to destroy Europe as a competitor forever. Industrial base, institutional knowhow and infrastructure cost far more and take far longer than rebuilding a defeated army, and without which they cannot rebuild the army they lost in Ukraine.

The biggest challenge to this whole idea is actually European strategy of "you can't kill me if I kill myself", e.g. cutting off one's own energy supply at start of war is a tactic few has counter for.
 
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