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Tse

Junior Member
Registered Member
the Xia dynasty doesn't seems mythical because so much writing and facts are on it so we know it was founded by a flood enginee
Sigh sorry, whenever this thread touches on religion there's bound to be some giant historical errors to be corrected. TLDR: The story of Yu was a 100% magical deity story that only became rationalized centuries later. see Hu Jiegang, "Taolun gushi Da Liu Hu er xiangsheng," in Gushi Bian (Beijing: Pushe, 1927).

The earliest mention of Yu is on the Western Zhou bronze “Bingongxu 豳公盨,” around 9th century BCE (this artifact was unearthed in 2002), and Yu appears as a kind of earth god who magically creates dry land out of the primordial waters of the world. There is no mention of floods or flood management, which only appeared later in the Warring States. Especially philosophers like Meng Zi tended to rewrite the story and added the claim that Yu needed to dredge canals to get floodwater out (even then, the account in Meng Zi is still pretty bizarre, claiming that the rivers reversed course and flowed into the Middle Kingdom, causing dragons to dwell there). The philosophers had a tendency to rewrite gods into sage-kings to prove the antiquity of Confucian ethics, which we now know is an unfortunate tendency among Chinese, constantly trying to imagine a utopia in some other place that is better than what we have here 荣古陋今. In other works like the Shanhaijing, the magical and demigod aspects of Yu's story is even more pronounced. So no, please do not take all those 三皇五帝 mythology as the history of China. There is only one source of info we need and that's archaeology: the Erlitou and Erligang cultures are clearly continuous with Shang archaeology, so that's our history.

As for the Israelite god, I think you misunderstand the scholarship. Yahweh has similarities with typical storm and desert gods because that's where the Hebrews lived, but this god is not mentioned in any other culture, and the Hebrews certainly took him as their high god. It is the Ten Commandments that seem to be drawn from Mesopotamian cultures. the life of Jesus in the texts start to be quoted in other extant documents 40-60 years after what they describe, it was the compilation of texts into the Bible that happened centuries later. But then the older churches like Orthodox and Catholic dont rely on the Bible and focus on oral tradition.
 

supercat

Major
View attachment 145069

Certain non-profits in China are facing an extinction event. They blast President Donald Trump for his 'destructive' policies.
Today seems to be "Bethany Day".
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
#
Sigh sorry, whenever this thread touches on religion there's bound to be some giant historical errors to be corrected. TLDR: The story of Yu was a 100% magical deity story that only became rationalized centuries later. see Hu Jiegang, "Taolun gushi Da Liu Hu er xiangsheng," in Gushi Bian (Beijing: Pushe, 1927).

The earliest mention of Yu is on the Western Zhou bronze “Bingongxu 豳公盨,” around 9th century BCE (this artifact was unearthed in 2002), and Yu appears as a kind of earth god who magically creates dry land out of the primordial waters of the world. There is no mention of floods or flood management, which only appeared later in the Warring States. Especially philosophers like Meng Zi tended to rewrite the story and added the claim that Yu needed to dredge canals to get floodwater out (even then, the account in Meng Zi is still pretty bizarre, claiming that the rivers reversed course and flowed into the Middle Kingdom, causing dragons to dwell there). The philosophers had a tendency to rewrite gods into sage-kings to prove the antiquity of Confucian ethics, which we now know is an unfortunate tendency among Chinese, constantly trying to imagine a utopia in some other place that is better than what we have here 荣古陋今. In other works like the Shanhaijing, the magical and demigod aspects of Yu's story is even more pronounced. So no, please do not take all those 三皇五帝 mythology as the history of China. There is only one source of info we need and that's archaeology: the Erlitou and Erligang cultures are clearly continuous with Shang archaeology, so that's our history.
That's known as euhemerism and is not unique to Chinese. Greeks and Romans did it with their gods, and many believe (including me) that's exactly what the biblical account of Jesus was.
 

supercat

Major
Well, such news is always 30 years late.

Today appears to be the "Freedom of Press" day.

If you think USAID is the only one that undermines real freedom of press (if there is really such a thing ever), think again. The European Commission is doing exactly the same thing.
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