This was the same logic when they blamed nordstream on Putin and covid on China.... wake up dude
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- Thread starter bd popeye
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I think some of us including our good friend @coolgod (love you brother) have taken Donald Rumsfeld philosophy class on the known, unknown, known knowns theory:
Motive, means, oppurtunity, and Modis Operandi of false flags, mkultra, etc only US fits the bill...
if it smells, walks, quacks like a duck.....
The CIA has a long history of doing this sort of thing... see Hastings etc.... America has both the capability and the propensity and this is well established...
The same logic would be saying that China engineered covid to kill millions of Americans, infiltrated US gangs to sell drugs, split the country and inflict violence on the people, started Jan 6 protests to discredit US government, spread crack among neighborhoods to weaken US salaried class etc etc.
If they want to start a limited war with China, it might be the biggest mistake in America's history.
It provides the ideal safe way of activating the Chinese public, who will not stop until a massive buffer zone has been cleared out, once they start to get riled up.
Ever since China took off far ahead economically, the main issue for China has been morale and willingness to fight. Some factions in the government are trying to disarm the country, similar to the powers right before ww1, they believe in the false prophecies of trade and "win-win" diplomacy. A limited war will delete these deluded people while not putting China at any actual risk.
The nightmare scenario of China is that US will blitz us, 2014 Ukraine style, and no one from the PLA bothers to fight seriously, no one readied the industry, no one prepared the ship yards and drone makers, we just give up on our freedom without fighting because we're military budget wise a disarmed nation.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Exactly. Blaming this on the CIA is just like blaming Nordstream on Putin or COVID on China. They could imagine all the "motive, means, opportunity, and Modis Operandi" but it's all just a story unless there's evidence.
There's a reason that courts all over the world require evidence to convict, not "motive, means, opportunity, and Modis Operandi."
It smells, walks and quacks exactly like an angry old man with a van who's pissed off at society.
Of crashing vans into civilians? No. The CIA tries to do meaningfull things to destabilize. And even if the CIA did have this sort of history, just because a man is a known thief doesn't mean that whenever anyone anywhere can't find something, you can assume he stole it.
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To my knowledge, US didn’t remove sanctions on Li Shangfu after he became China’s defense minister in 2023. This lead to some pretty awkward meetings between him and his US counterpart Lloyd Austin. Though this is all a moot point by now since Li Shangfu was removed from office earlier this year.
Tldr- sanctions be damned
The first 4 years of Trump... it felt like all the Chinese did was counterpunch.
Now that the second Trump is shaping up to be similar to the first 4 years, any chance China punches first? or at least prime its muscles hard for a stronger counter punch? More currency swaps? No more UST purchases? Anything else China can do to the US that doesn't harm itself too much?
Now that the second Trump is shaping up to be similar to the first 4 years, any chance China punches first? or at least prime its muscles hard for a stronger counter punch? More currency swaps? No more UST purchases? Anything else China can do to the US that doesn't harm itself too much?
It has been a while since I am back to China. To my shock the west worship is still strong. Even after massive growth of China. Even after China basically surpassed US. I came to the conclusion these types will not go away even if China becomes twice as strong. Why?
Because their motivation is not based on reality of countries. They live in a bad economy, and want a short cut to go back. These are universally the type that never go out of country, yet moderately succesful, thinking government clipped their wings. They see me come from west they be like "wow you must be so succesful" "you have seen the true world" "I wish I can live in a freeier place".
Like bitch you think communism is bad try pay income tax in west. You pay more tax in west and get a shitty government. China is a god damn liberal heaven. Where else do you go that income tax so low, no property tax. You fucks have well off life doing small business, but wish to be big wall street sharks, as if everyone can live like that. No, if not for the government policy you will be taxed to shit as small business, robbed by gangs, never even have a chance to aspire to be bigger. So shut the fuck up about imaginary west.
China doesn't need to be the first to attack when the US is harming itself. Let Trump impose tarrifs and declare victory. And then just keep exporting via Mexico and Vietnam. If that leads to problems between the US and Mexico, that's great. It's much more productive to invest the money and effort into improving yourself than to try to sabotage the enemy
Once Trump thinks he's beaten China, he can focus on harvesting the EU. Another opportunity to separate American vassals from their overlord.
Meanwhile China keeps growing at more than double the growth rate of America, global south markets grow and Europe declines.
Why fight when you are winning without fighting? Maybe if there's a Taiwan opportunity, but otherwise China doesn't need to do anything
Or the government might just be telling it as it is, because that's what actually happened. Chinese people aren't idiots, they are horrified by events like this and aware of the underlying social tensions. In fact, its deeply insulting to the victims and Chinese peoples' intelligence while they are grieving and concerned to just throw out a, "hmmm I wonder how America was somehow involved in this?" Its insulting for normal folk to do this, not to mention if the government did this people would expect a geopolitical response and it would play into narratives that the government hypes up the threat from America and intervention in Taiwan to distract people from economic problems. Peddling conspiracy would be just straight up moronic on their part and I thought people here are always complaining about how the CPC sucks at communication?
You think its a scarier explanation that the most siginificant geopolitical challenger to the US's hegemony has an internal security apparatus with more holes than Iran's to allow for CIA funded attacks like this, rather than the sobering but accepted reality by many that struggling members of society are lashing out with violence? Umm....okay? Plus do you even hear what you're saying? When CIA funds terrorism globally, they always align with organizations with a clear ideaology where the members believe in dying for the cause. In this case, you're telling me that the CIA has been able to extend its tentacles to every lone wolf, unemployed incel in China and order them to carry out these kinds of attacks that benefit no greater cause and where any reward is moot since these attackers either kill themselves or get the death penalty anyway? One must have to have a really low opinion of Chinese internal security to believe that.
As for the latter being "scarier," it is, but its also reality and governments derive their legitimacy from solving problems like this. The CPC has a mandate exactly to do this, so its more important to be truthful about the real issue rather than stick to conspiracy.
Chinese police never carry guns and are usually docile since street crime is rare in China, and the most they respond to are personal disputes that don't need a heavy hand. Plus like anywhere else in the world, every Chinese has a phone so they're always being scrutinized for their actions.
Considering how deadly this attack has been though, I do wonder if the party will change their tune and allow cops to be more armed and to have more leeway in crime prevention.