Military situation in the sino-indian border

Yodello said:

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I am seriously puzzled as to what the Chinese have to gain by dragging things along. The longer this drags out, the stronger India begins to look and the weaker China appears to be. Nations around the region are watching and this may drastically reduce the perceived strength of the Chinese and its overall standing in the region. How can they let the Indians blatantly trespass onto their territory and create such a big fuss? Yes, the Indian army holds the High ground, but is that all there is to it? If being able to hold the high ground alone is enough to deter a would-be so-called Superpower than I guess myself and the countries in the region will start assessing the capabilities of the PLA and deduce that despite all the hype about all the new weaponry in its arsenal, the PLA is a paper tiger and not really a military that is capable of fighting and winning in a real battle. I fell that the Chinese are being overly cautious, and that overly cautious nature is the reason why I feel China will never be a military Superpower despite all the High-Tech weaponry on display. It is not the hardware alone that makes a Superpower. They simply lack the bravado to catapult them into being a true Superpower. Imagine anyone stepping into US or Russian held territory, the trespasser would be crushed and swatted without mercy, damn what the International Community may say. The Chinese seems too cautious of what the International community would say, and they bind themselves into a strait-jacket. Hardly Superpower material.

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China has a bigger picture in mind.
It has putting troops and equipment to aksai chin that emboldens Pakistan to do couple things couple days ago.
1)tested a nuclear capable missiles
2)pulled out of kashmir peace talk and started to shell indian troops at Kashmir and killed a few of them couple days ago.

That's what's good about Muslims. When it's time to attack, they attack. No hesitation, no pussy footings.

China wants to see Western side to lit up first.

China issues a travel advisory to it's Nationals at India.

It's prepping for something big.

It wants reclaim southern Tibet and chop off indian Eastern state.

Winter would set in soon, let mother nature do it's thing. No need to be rash and hot headed about it, let's see how long these troops can continue to camp there. I truly belief this was done to torpedo the CPMEC by starting a war.

KIENCHIN said:

Winter would set in soon, let mother nature do it's thing. No need to be rash and hot headed about it, let's see how long these troops can continue to camp there. I truly belief this was done to torpedo the CPMEC by starting a war.

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What is The CPMEC?
Btw, I think the Indian troops are well-entrenched with bunkers and with a line of supply. Winter should pose the same problems for both sides don't you think?

Yodello said:

What is The CPMEC?
Btw, I think the Indian troops are well-entrenched with bunkers and with a line of supply. Winter should pose the same problems for both sides don't you think?

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Sorry, meant to be CPEC. Starting a war with a bunch of losers would not bring any good, there are other ways to retaliate, one of which as Tidalwave's post had pointed out, is to have our Pakistani friends stir up shit on their side of the border. Don't forget China is a UN security council permanent
member and as such the whole world, friends or critics would pounce on China making any irrational moves.

KIENCHIN said:

Sorry, meant to be CPEC. Starting a war with a bunch of losers would not bring any good, there are other ways to retaliate, one of which as Tidalwave's post had pointed out is to have our Pakistani friends
stir up shit on their side of the border.

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That still doesn't solve the problem of the current standoff at Doka La/Donglang. The Indian Army holds the high ground and has already stopped the PLA from constructing the roads. Looks to me that the Indian army has effectively taken control of that little portion of land. How would it benefit the PLA more than the Indian Army with the onset of winter? As I said earlier, the Indians are well encamped with a steady line of supply. There's no way that the PLA is taking back that Doka La/Donglang pass without a fight. Pakistan can start all the shit they want on their side of their border, it doesn't change the situation at the Doka La/Donglang pass. From all the news media in India including the military experts and former military personnel, there is the distinct voice that there's no way India is going to give away that startegic area to China without blood. The Indians are firmly determined to fight this one out. There's no way the PLA is going to get that piece of land without willing to shed blood for it. As I said earlier, the Chinese leadership is overly cautious of International sentiments to its own detriment. Despite having a vastly superior military, Industrial capacity, economy and technology, the Chinese leadership just binds itself to a strait-jacket wondering what the International community thinks, and it is too cautious of its own image, which does it no good. No amount of technology or hardware can beat a determined foe who may not have the same capabilities but shows some bravado. I just can't say the same for the PLA. In this case the Indians have displayed a lot of bravado and the support for the Indian military from the entire India nation is skyhigh. It shows to other countries in the region that India is willing to back up any country that has a treaty or good relations with India, just as it is standing up for Bhutan right now, which may or may not be true, but it scores a lot of points in Indias favour and it undermines China's perceived rise.

Yodello said:

How can they let the Indians (...) the PLA is a paper tiger (...) the Chinese are being overly cautious (...)They simply lack the bravado(...)The Chinese seems too cautious of what the International community would say

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How can they let the indians? what do you want china to do? go to war with india? china would lose a lot, and gain very little or nothing. The hostilities would last very little, before internal and external pressure would force china to stop it, nevermind the fact that india has nuclear weapons. And then china would have an 1.3 billion nuclear armed enemy (and potencial economic superpower) in its southern border.

This isnt being a paper tiger nor overly cautious. This is being realistic in that this is a globalized world. This isnt the isolated china of 40 years ago that could go to war with anyone of its neighbours. Today, china in particular depends a lot from trade (huge trade surplus) , and china cant afford to alienate its trade partners, something that would happen if china were to go to war with any of its neigbours. Europe depends on russian gas and even so hit russia hard. Its already bad enough to lose the huge and growing indian market (people there are already calling to boycott chinese products), let alone the western nations which would never allow china to screw india.

Its easy to build islets in the middle of nowhere that almost nobody cares about it. Building strategic roads in a disputed border area is not so easy.

Orthan said:

How can they let the indians? what do you want china to do? go to war with india? china would lose a lot, and gain very little or nothing. The hostilities would last very little, before internal and external pressure would force china to stop it, nevermind the fact that india has nuclear weapons. And then china would have an 1.3 billion nuclear armed enemy (and potencial economic superpower) in its southern border.

This isnt being a paper tiger nor overly cautious. This is being realistic in that this is a globalized world. This isnt the isolated china of 40 years ago that could go to war with anyone of its neighbours. Today, china in particular depends a lot from trade (huge trade surplus) , and china cant afford to alienate its trade partners, something that would happen if china were to go to war with any of its neigbours. Europe depends on russian gas and even so hit russia hard. Its already bad enough to lose the huge and growing indian market (people there are already calling to boycott chinese products), let alone the western nations which would never allow china to screw india.

Its easy to build islets in the middle of nowhere that almost nobody cares about it. Building strategic roads in a disputed border area is not so easy.

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Hmmm....that just reinforces my point. China cares too much of what others think. It would rather lose a chunk of its own perceived territory just so that it can appease others? I find that hard to swallow. Maybe, the PLA just doesn't have enough muscle power or isn't confident enough, or like i pointed out, China is too image conscious. In trying to look good or trying to please everyone, it would end up pleasing no one. No doubt, trade is important for China, but it is also important for India. As for Western nations not allowing China to screw India, well that's just sad indeed. Even after losing ones territory, China is more concerned about what the West thinks. Too bad, China needs to develop a more capable soft power strategy, but it's not going to happen with its own self-imposed 'strait-jacket' mentality. Having a little bravado doesn't only apply to the Battlefield, it also applies to relations, softpower and overall confidence. China has to be more bold.

As to China today not being the China of 40 years ago, well the China of 40 years ago was willing to fight for what it believed, that's why it survived. Todays China is what it is because the China, or the Chinese of 40 years ago fought for what they believed and what belonged to them, without that there wouldn't have been China of today. No one advocates outright war between India and China, it's just that I believe India is winning this round after playing it's card so well. Seems to me that the Chinese leadership has been caught off guard and there's very little China can do without escalating this spat into a war. It also shows that India is willing to stand up and defend smaller countries like Bhutan, and that the countries in alliance with India can count on it to stand for them. Lots of brownie points for India in this little episode. The South Asian and ASEAN nations are watching and they will definitely notice.

If China don't act or let India withdraw voluntarily, then China is making a huge mistake, I don't think or I hope China is not as weak and timid as we think, I think Chinese leaders had too much things to occupy their mind in past few weeks like the G20 meeting.

I hope China is taking the time position its heavy equipment along the borders, so when the clash come the outcome will be absolute and decisive, and any Indian reinforcement will also be crushed.

This high ground thing is absolute overrated, its stupid to think China is not attacking because someone holds the high ground in the age of attack helicopters, bombers.

Yodello said:

As to China today not being the China of 40 years ago, well the China of 40 years ago was willing to fight for what it believed, that's why it survived. Todays China is what it is because the China, or the Chinese of 40 years ago fought for what they believed and what belonged to them, without that there wouldn't have been China of today. No one advocates outright war between India and China, it's just that I believe India is winning this round after playing it's card so well. Seems to me that the Chinese leadership has been caught off guard and there's very little China can do without escalating this spat into a war. It also shows that India is willing to stand up and defend smaller countries like Bhutan, and that the countries in alliance with India can count on it to stand for them. Lots of brownie points for India in this little episode. The South Asian and ASEAN nations are watching and they will definitely notice.

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Don't be so pessimistic, it ain't over until its over, we are only in Act II.