Mediterranean Naval Forces

The US Navy announced today (August 29, 203) that the USS Stout, DDG-55, a Burke class destroyer would be the 5th Burke class destroyer taking up position in the Mediterranean for a possible strike on Syria. This soon after the British government voted to not assist the US in any Syrian strike.

It is probable that several US submarines (whose presence is never announced) are also there, perhaps two improved Los Angeles SSNs, and one Virginia Class SSN. It is also possible, depending on the size of strike planned, that one of the East Coast SSGN Ohio conversions would be there, say the USS Florida, SSGN-728.

Each of the Burke Class Destroyers could carry 36 or more Tomahawk missiles, let's say they average 30. That would be 150 Tomahawks there. Each of the Submarines carry 12 VLS Tomahawks, so that is another 36. the Ohio class SSGN can carry up to 154 Tomahawks. So, with this force, the US could have as many as 340 Tomahawks available on it US Navy vessels, not to mention others that could be launched from B-1, B-2, and B-52 aircraft flying from the U.S.

With all of this in mind, and in comparison to the Russian naval forces now in the area, the US vessels include:


BURKE FLIGHT I & II Destroyer (Four):
Displacement - 8,900 tons
Length: 153.8 m
Beam: 20.4 m
Draft: 9.3 m
Speed: 32 knots
Crew: 300
Armament:
- 29 X VLS Cells Forward
- 61 x VLS Cells Aft
- 08 x Harpoon Anti-ship
- 01 x 127 mm DP main gun
- 02 x 25mm auto-cannons
- 02 x 20 mm Phalanx CIWS
- 06 x 533 mm Torpedo Tubes
Weapons for VLS include Tomahawk, Standard, ESSM, VL ASROC
Aircraft: None - Helo landing pad


BURKE FLIGHT IIA Destroyer (One):
Displacement - 9,500 tons
Length: 155 m
Beam: 20.4 m
Draft: 9.3 m
Speed: 32 knots
Crew: 300
Armament:
- 32 X VLS Cells Forward
- 64 x VLS Cells Aft
- 01 x 127 mm DP main gun
- 02 x 25mm auto-cannons
- 01 x 20 mm Phalanx CIWS
- 06 x 533 mm Torpedo tibes
Weapons for VLS include Tomahawk, Standard, ESSM, VL ASROC
Aircraft: 2 SH-60 ASW helcipoter & hanger

SSN
LOS ANGELES (I) CLASS Submarine (Two):
Displacement - 6,200 tons
Length: 110 m
Beam: 10 m
Draft: 9.4 m
Speed: 34 knots
Crew: 129
Armament:
- 04 x 533 mm torpedo tubes for 37 weapons
- 12 x Tomahawk VLS cells
Weapons include Mk-48 ASW Torpedoes, Tomahawk, Harpoon, mines
Aircraft: None


VIRGINIA CLASS SSN Submarine (One):
Displacement - 7,900 tons
Length: 155 m
Beam: 10 m
Draft: 12 m
Speed: 30 knots
Crew: 135
Armament:
- 04 x 533 mm torpedo tubes for 27 weapons
- 12 x Tomahawk VLS cells
Weapons include Mk-48 ASW Torpedoes, Tomahawk, Harpoon, Mines
Aircraft: None


OHIO CLASS SSGN Submarine (One):
Displacement - 16, 800 tons
Length: 170 m
Beam: 13 m
Draft: 12 m
Speed: 25 knots
Crew: 155
Armament:
- 04 x 533 mm torpedo tubes for 25 weapons
- 154 x Tomahawk VLS cells
Weapons include Mk-48 ASW Torpedoes
Aircraft: None

I will add the French vessels which have been committed to assist in any mission, the entire Charles de Gaulle nuclear aircraft carrier strike group, tomorrow morning.

The Florida alone can rain down over 150 TLAMs I expect her to be letting loose a lions share of those pretty soon.

It is comparisons like this which reminds the world that political power really does grow out of the barrel of a gun.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The Florida alone can rain down over 150 TLAMs I expect her to be letting loose a lions share of those pretty soon.

Click to expand...

Well, we do not really know if a Ohio SSGN is there...it would never be announced.

The Stout (I believe it was) was involved with the Libyan attack and shot 50 itself. The Burkes can be loaded up for bear when they want them to.

Interestingly, in that 2011 deployment, on 1 March 2011 , Commander Nathan Borchers, Command Master Chief Susan Bruce-Ross, six other chiefs, one junior officer, and one petty officer of USS Stout were relieved by the Commander Sixth Fleet. The cited cause was a “pervasive pattern of unprofessional behavior” among the ship's crew including “fraternization, orders violations and disregard for naval standards of conduct and behavior which contributed to poor crew morale and a hostile command climate."

Nasty stuff that.

As regards this operation, I believe it is senseless and is mainly based on a foolish "red line," that Obama drew regarding a conflict that does not impact US interests. IMHO, it more about saving face and punctuating his so-called "credibility." But, IMHO, he has lost most of that anyway.

This is highly improbable, but I think the PLAN should retask its anti piracy fleet, or at least part of it, to head into the med. at the same time, they should dispatch a replacement fleet to take over anti piracy duties.

It would be a good training exercise for the PLAN to test their rapid deployment capabilities, the Russians would welcome the support and show of solidarity, it gives Beijing a powerful card to plays and also some security assurances if things spiral out of control and the conflict spreads quickly into other countries in the region and China has to do another evacuation of its nationals, and at the minimal, if things all kick off, it gives the PLAN an opportunity to closely monitor the activities and operating procedures of multiple fleets during war time conditions and would be a gold mine in terms of intel and signals data.

Very highly unlikely China will get involved or sail into the mediterrean

There is no doubt Russia sent a big signal but as for Chinese assests they could easily triumph the Russians in naval vessels

If China sent 4 x Type 052C and 2 x Type 054A or the other way around that would be many times the Russian strength

The thing is Russia has nothing to losse whereas China has everything to losse not militarily but politcally, on the world stage infromt everyone they don't want to increase the "China fear" factor and it would fit good with Chinese non-interference policy either

We all know what the Russians are like they could send in a SSBN It wouldn't suprise anyone on the otherhand China is softly rising and making progress so such a big move wouldn't suite them and certainly wouldn't look good

See this is why those recent Sino-Russian excercise are so important because it clearly showed Chinas massive naval build up, what was there something like 6 DDG and 2 FFG and replenishment tanker, far more advanced and numerical that Russia deployed

Meaning that Russia will be least of your worrys if you get on the wrong side of China

Yes, military presence must match political rhetoric, and china has been very subdued in its criticisms.

Also I wonder what kind of message the 071, 054A and replenishment vessel in the med would send. I would be a nice test of the PLANs operational flexibility and the dexterity of deployed crews.
But china simply has no big stake in Syria that would warrant this action, which may not be deserve to be called provocative, but certainly would end up complicating navigation in the med and increase chances of miscalculation.

The idea of a frigate and an LPD and their tanker just sitting there awkwardly while tomahawks blast off around them towards Assad also makes me snort loudly. I also wonder if the PLAN vessels can transit the Suez Canal in orderly time.


But I'm sure PLAN planners have noted the benefits and flexibility of having a permanently deployed task force (albeit a small one) out in the region if they ever considered throwing in a few chips of their own. The Libya evacuation a few years back also demonstrated the value of a forward presence, although in that case it was more of an exercise to show the flag, and the current PLAN anti piracy task force has next to no land attack capabilities.

A true forward deployed task force in future should consist of a small number of destroyers and frigates, and perhaps a cruiser, and an LHA or carrier, possibly split across in their own sub task forces to cover greater area in the gulf and Indian Ocean, but be able to be consolidated in event of a crisis where concentrated land attack capability via LACM is required, as well as the prudent measure of air defense, and the option of long range evacuation and/or strike that a LHA and carrier can provide, respectively.

A permanent task force of say, 2 FFGs (054a), 1-2 DDG/CGs (052C/D/055), and a LHA (075) or carrier (001 or 001A?) and their accompanying replenishment vessels could be realised circa 2020 once the PLAN's fleet becomes heavily modern, or maybe earlier, if the flattops participation is ignored.

I wasn't thinking of the PLAN sending a fleet to rival or surpass the Russian one, the PLAN has the assets for it, but there would be no real reason to do so.

A single FFG or an FFG, DDG and tanker would not be enough to cause a major stir politically or diplomatically. Even an LPD would be perfectly justifiable if the pretext for sending the fleet was to monitor the situation and be ready to start pulling out Chinese nationals if the situation escalates and destabilises neighbouring countries as it is actually likely to do if the Americans get involved.

The China threat drones will spin anything China does into something sinister and evil, just look at all the BS they tried to make with the free Chinese lessons offer from Chinese embassies. You cannot allow your foreign policy to be dictated by such trolls and haters.

To be honest, the best thing China can do to discredit those China hater mongers is to use their own hate and predictability against them. A move such as China sending in naval ships into the Med would trigger an avalanche of BS hate and fear mongering from them. Perfect. China does exactly what it said all along and nothing more, and suddenly those who made all the ridiculous claims and theories look like the idiots that they are. Do that enough times and even the most forgetful or disinterested viewers start to see a pattern.

Permanent base for a flat top might be little far fetched but I envisage 3 overseas PLAN bases in the future concentrated in and around the Indian Ocean

They would be a Flotilla each consisting of 1 DDG, 2 FFG and a replenishment tanker, so 12 vessels deployed for overseas naval bases

LPD and LHD would be sent if something like Lebanon 2006 happened where massive evacuation of Chinese citizens is required

Jeff Head said:

Some have suggested that the Russian vessels will try and shoot down US and allied missiles as a way to prevent damnage to Syria. I do not think that will happen. That would be the Russians taking active military measures in a hot combat zone, making themselves a target, and would invite immediate attack by the US and its allies. The Russians will not do that at all as long as the US and its allies stay within whatever parameters they have voiced to the US.

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Theoretically , Russians could declare air-exclusion zone around their flotilla and threaten to shoot at any aircraft that enters . Tomahawk is basically UAV so it would fall into the category . I don't think Americans would retaliate , after all it is very difficult to determine who shoot your cruise missile down , because Tomahawk doesn't have RWR and US ships and planes would be far .

But , I don't think Russians would risk it . Cruise missiles are only prelude in the intervention . Real game would start with airstrikes later on .