Max Brooks: World War Z

Exactly, some people may think adversely about biological warfare, but in this case it is safe, efficient, and environmental friendly.
No need to storm buildings or sewers, just pump in some gas and get a fire squad to take care of anything that comes out, wait a few days and everything is clean.

xywdx said:

Exactly, some people may think adversely about biological warfare, but in this case it is safe, efficient, and environmental friendly.
No need to storm buildings or sewers, just pump in some gas and get a fire squad to take care of anything that comes out, wait a few days and everything is clean.

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Uh, wouldn't your virus kill humans as well? And how do you know that the virus won't combine with zombie flesh and cause them to mutate into ?

In order to create a bio-weapon, you need to study and understand how zombies work. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me: the specimens will either break free or contaminate the researchers, causing massive infection behind the front lines, or the researchers will be *too* successful and start engineering bio-weapons from their research.

On a related note, does anyone know if a Neutron bomb actually incinerate organic tissue or just dose them with fatal levels of radiation?

I can't believe I took time and read the whole thread till now!!!

Good efforts guys, we have "what if alien invaded China?" thread, we have "zombies started from China, what's next?" thread, did we have "what if Vampire succeeded CPC central poliburo and making plans to take over the world" thread?

No offence, I read the thread only to see how far you guys willing to go (no, not "bash China"; just stupidity) I mean, you guys at SDF are some "tier 1" military fans of konwing what's going on of the world, and the best thing you can come out is something showed up previous pages debates?

Yeah, si-fi (in a sense) topic, let's give naive and childish a chance and let down our hairs a little - I would go to Youtube comments. "tier 1" military fans should have done better...

_______

OK, end of "complain", back to topic. Stuff like this requires "systematical killing", despite this is a book by non-tier-1-military-savvy author, this is an SDF thread, let's act like one.

I was thinking bio-weapon and sonic weapon as "better solution", I don't think current human enginery can't handle it though.

7 million (or more) moving zombies are just moving meats, while noboddy serious enough to brought out the big gun in the previous posts, I intend to utilize some stockpile of our(human) overfilled arsenal. Even in the new york scenario, sitting ducks are hardly called "defence" - only mobile defensive forces are survivable, and only surviving forces can actually do something (you don't need to hear it from Mao Zedong to know it actually) - not to mention every time your "relocation" can call in some carpet bombing, 155mm shells, napalm, all kinds of chemical flux (it's not "inhuman" if you fight non-human; glue chemical and "digest" chemical might handy).... and tactically, no one (nothing) comes in a horde that you can not divide and conquer esp when they are mindless slow melee meat and you are 21st century commander.

I didn't read this book and I do not intent to "follow the book" in this thread, if "human faild to defeat this zombies threat", it is because decision maker failed, not that human would actually fail in any case near this kind of situation. And I believe SDF members would do a far better thread if posting "off book" and act like a military savvy.

Honestly no one could take zombie more than merely sci-fi...a bio-lifeform is a complex set of machines, fueled by an energy system that we still failed to replicate (it's more efficient than fossel fuel), not to mention a brain, however primitive, is far more than just a lump of meat that generate electric pulses...thus to say some kind of virus that could "reactivate" necrotic tissues and cells to make its host "alive" again, alas with only an instinct to feed and spread through bodily fluids? Biologically that's impossible.

So if that's "fantasy", to have a bit of fun with it is no harm, to get all riled up over it is real stupidity, like those who'd actually partition the gov't over response plan to zombies (thought somebody did that a few months back, in the US I think).

At least for me, I did with a bit of good laugh and with just a tiny drop of seriousness...just enough for grammar and spelling.

Red___Sword said:

7 million (or more) moving zombies are just moving meats, while noboddy serious enough to brought out the big gun in the previous posts, I intend to utilize some stockpile of our(human) overfilled arsenal. Even in the new york scenario, sitting ducks are hardly called "defence" - only mobile defensive forces are survivable, and only surviving forces can actually do something (you don't need to hear it from Mao Zedong to know it actually) - not to mention every time your "relocation" can call in some carpet bombing, 155mm shells, napalm, all kinds of chemical flux (it's not "inhuman" if you fight non-human; glue chemical and "digest" chemical might handy).... and tactically, no one (nothing) comes in a horde that you can not divide and conquer esp when they are mindless slow melee meat and you are 21st century commander.

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First of all, if a zombie apocalypse really happens, you'll have 6 billion zombies on your hands, not 7 million. Even in just New York, that's some 19 million potential zombies. I mean people.

Secondly, if we assume zombies exist as depicted in fiction, then it would be really foolish to assume they're just dead meat walking. *SOMETHING* is animating them, giving necrotic flesh a semblance of life. I was only partly joking with the Resident Evil stuff. When you use bio and chemical weapons on something you don't even understand, chances are you're going to screw yourself more than the zombies.

Third, being a 21st century military commander means you rely on a plethora of non-combatant support that requires a functioning society: what happens when society has fallen apart and there's nobody to produce ammunition for you? What are you going to use when the roads are so clogged with refugees that you can't even transport troops or supplies? Use helicopters and planes? Where are you going to get the fuel? How long will your stockpile of fuel last when the oil supply chain has completely broken down?

Fourth, napalming the entire city means killing everyone still holding out. Sure, you might think a few victims of collateral damage isn't a big deal, but that's because we live in a world of over 6 billion people. Imagine if humanity was reduced to only a few million, scattered all over the globe? Those few survivors, those women and children, would mean the difference between whether or not your all-male commando platoon would have a future.

Things don't seem so simple now, do they?

solarz said:

Uh, wouldn't your virus kill humans as well? And how do you know that the virus won't combine with zombie flesh and cause them to mutate into

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?

In order to create a bio-weapon, you need to study and understand how zombies work. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me: the specimens will either break free or contaminate the researchers, causing massive infection behind the front lines, or the researchers will be *too* successful and start engineering bio-weapons from their research.

On a related note, does anyone know if a Neutron bomb actually incinerate organic tissue or just dose them with fatal levels of radiation?

Click to expand...

Well that's where science comes in, and your recipe for disaster only works in movies, books, games, and the like.
Unless zombies are animated by magic then some of our ways of killing humans will always work, and believe me we have a lot of ways.

solarz said:

Things don't seem so simple now, do they?

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Yes, that's indeed a good way to put it, better than some 3 pages discussion of "how a MBT do its job in the sea of zombies". You see my point here?

Like simple rule of law of conservation of mass, which pretty much all the zombie movie flawed - you don't suddenly getting extra meat (muscle) in a day, simply by "infected" of some necrotic virus - a normal society, got some time before zombies suddenly overthrown every aspect of the world which we called "society".

That is when (and how) the world FIGHT the zombies (and the root cause, some kind of infection), not merely "hanging around at the zombie apocalypse aftermath".

If I get myself wrong, that everybody actually WAS tooking all the time of discussion, talking about "haning aroud" instead of FIGHT it, my bad, I would take my excuse.

Well that's where science comes in, and your recipe for disaster only works in movies, books, games, and the like.
Unless zombies are animated by magic then some of our ways of killing humans will always work, and believe me we have a lot of ways.

Click to expand...

That kind of attitude is what causes the disasters in the first place.

Red___Sword said:

Yes, that's indeed a good way to put it, better than some 3 pages discussion of "how a MBT do its job in the sea of zombies". You see my point here?

Like simple rule of law of conservation of mass, which pretty much all the zombie movie flawed - you don't suddenly getting extra meat (muscle) in a day, simply by "infected" of some necrotic virus - a normal society, got some time before zombies suddenly overthrown every aspect of the world which we called "society".

That is when (and how) the world FIGHT the zombies (and the root cause, some kind of infection), not merely "hanging around at the zombie apocalypse aftermath".

If I get myself wrong, that everybody actually WAS tooking all the time of discussion, talking about "haning aroud" instead of FIGHT it, my bad, I would take my excuse.

Click to expand...

Conservation of mass: that's why zombies eat people.

There are actually two phases to a zombie apocalypse:

1) Infection
2) Apocalypse

During the infection phase, zombies can be easily contained *IF* the correct measures are taken. However, part of the social commentary of zombie apocalypse movies is the fact that the World is unable to put aside its petty conflicts in time to face a real threat.

In WWZ, China would rather create a massive political crackdown than to disclose its zombie threat (not that I agree with the scenario). Smugglers would smuggle zombies for money. The blackmarket organ trade helped spread the infection globally.

Then we run into the problem of Compassion, which in this case can be a deadly flaw. In 28 Weeks Later, the entire plot is about some people trying to save a couple of kids out of compassion, and thus causing the End of the World.

So in the Infection phase, our worst enemies aren't the zombies, it's us.

Now the Apocalypse happens when the zombies have globally reached a critical mass and they can no longer be contained. That's when the real War begins.

There are a number of ways this scenario could occur. Perhaps zombism isn't transmitted by bite but by air: everyone is infected, but they only become zombies if they die. Or perhaps the infection isn't recognized early enough and is allowed to spread to multiple hot spots.

I think the real challenge for the military fighting against a zombie apocalypse is that there are no frontlines. Your safe zones can be changed into a raging hot spot with a single infection. You can't even trust your comrades: they may have been infected but are hiding it.

In short, you could say that fighting against a zombie apocalypse is like fighting humanity's own flaws (or strengths).

solarz said:

There are actually two phases to a zombie apocalypse:

1) Infection
2) Apocalypse

Click to expand...

Yes, thanks for set that right.

I took interest only in phase one, the phase two is what those fictionist paid for. Like a doctor having interest of saving dying people's life, but do not interested on resurrect dead people. A failed society is dead, "romantic" (in a sense) fiction do not change the "dead" part of the fact.

Really, ancient Babylon did not extinct from zombies, but it extincted still as a matter of fact, it failed what ever challenge there at its time, as would the supposed "world in zombie crysis". (here, I put the "blood trace of &&& shows they are Babylonian descendents" fat talks aside; you would find blood trace of human, inside zombies, too, if anyone scientifically consider zombie is an evolution leap)

My point is that we can (and should) put more interest on phase one of the supposed crysis, as we SDF good for.

Sidenote: I didn't make a good expression of Conservation of mass previously, "BioHazard" "Resident Evil" kind of stuff made it looks like a tiny injection of infection, give you a massive body mutation ("add muscle" esp) in a short time, (so that *normal* society can not withstand that kind of punch, and collaps) so short that humanity can not react about the crysis.

Zombie didn't coming out of nowhere, although it infect and spread like hell, human can do something about it which doom-sayers deems not.

An even more OT:

Anyone care to patch the missing link: Vampire took over the world?

Alien, Zombie, Vampire, that would be a good trilogy, in amusing the crowd.

Speaking of zombies, I was with my gf tonight talking about what happens if there were zombies, and I asked her what she'd prefer to be if there's one. With that said, now I ask you people: what will you guys do if there's one? Still come back to this forum so long the net is functional?


Here is also a theory that I have if zombies bit SDF members:

supermods degraded into normal mods
mods became normal members
intellectual powerhouses became normal members
normal members become trolls
how about trolls?
>>>
>>
>
no effect: they don't have a brains to start with