Maoist Attack on Indian Troops!

Then explain the vast amounts of Chinese surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, landmines, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs that are found in Afghanistan by Coalition forces, much of it brand new. And most often, the ammunition is traced to a PLA military facility.

Not that long ago, NORINCO was caught by the US Customs Service trying to smuggle 2,000 AK-47's into the US to arm US street gangs, and offered to sell surface-to-air missiles to gangs as well.

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Red Moon said:

That's quite a scoop about NORINCO there. Maybe we should call CNN or the New York Times, because I think they haven't heard about it. You did not give your source on this, but I would first ask why you find such a source believable. It seems that since December the US has been pushing Chinese buttons, from arms sales to Taiwan, to meeting the Dalai Lama and encouraging the whole Google scenario. I think every single news article I've read since then, both from American or Western sources or from Chinese sources, mentions these three issues plus the question of the Yuan's exchange rate and Iran sanctions. Why don't they just add a sixth: "NORINCO smuggling arms into the US!" Wow! This is a whole lot more exciting than those old stories we've all been hearing, and it would ABSOLUTELY cast China as the villain. What more could you want?

As to Chinese weapons in Afghanistan, I haven't seen that news anywhere either, although I admit it wouldn't be as bombastic as the NORINCO news. However, the whole world knows, and has known for much longer than a decade, that the Taliban has something to do with Pakistan, its Army and the ISI. And WE all know in SDF that Pakistan uses a lot of Chinese weapons.

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optionsss said:

What pointblank meant with not long ago was 1996, about 14 years ago... You can read the details on wiki.

That time Chinese military and arms manufacture was starved of cash and are quite desperate to supply weapons to earn some money. I am sure they are much better off now.

This is gettimg off topic, we should stop here.

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wikipedia said:

"The defendants offered the government undercover agents more sophisticated weapons, including hand-held rocket launchers, mortars, anti-aircraft missiles, silenced machine guns and even tanks," said Wayne Yamashita of the U.S. Customs Service.[8]

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rhino123 said:

Taking this scenario as an example, lets say it was not the Indians but NATO forces or US forces are being caught, what would be the outcome and why.

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Finn McCool said:

We know what the outcome is. Essentially the same thing has happened in Afghanistan to smaller contingents of NATO troops several times. We know the outcome. Heavy casualties to the Taliban because the NATO soldiers, having superior communications and a doctrine that relies on heavy firepower, call in airstrikes, attack helicopters, and artillery. That's why the Taliban doesn't often try to ambush and overrun NATO troops with large numbers anymore.

The NATO troops are better trained and have better communications and a more clear and responsive chain of command, and therefore resist the initial shock of ambush and retaliate better. All that training means that they can act without thinking to get out of the killzone and return fire and call in heavy firepower. If you put NATO troops in the exact same situation (outnumbered, walking into a well prepared ambush by a much larger force guerilla force that is armed with small arms, and that is on superior terrain) they would suffer casualties, mostly from the IEDs, but wouldn't be overrun and they would kill quite a few of the attackers.

These Indian paramilitary cops were not well trained, their officers were probably incompetent, at least the ones at the top were, they were inexperienced and had probably never seen combat before, and they were essentially out there on their own. It's a recipe for disaster that probably would happen (at least not quite as bad) with the better formations of the Indian Army.

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siegecrossbow said:

Let us not get bogged down by the Chinese weapons export issue. The topic is Maoist attack on Indian Troops and not illegal weapons trade by corrupt PLA officials!!!

The fact that the Indians couldn't field heavier firepower could be partially explained by the Maoists' knowledge of the terrain (and the Indian soldiers' lack of). The Indian military should really treat this as a wake up call since they can't hope to deal with external threats if they aren't even familiar with their own turf.

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Boks75 said:

Just clarifying that the forces involved in this particular incident were the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF). The CRPF reports to the federal government (home minister) and its primary functions are handling domestic disturbances (including insurgencies) as the army is not very keen to get involved in such situations and in any case its best avoided. Not a pretty sight to have a flag march in residential areas. Happened last in 1992 for riot control following Hindu Muslim clashes in Calcutta/Delhi following the babri masjid demolition and it was quite intimidating. Since then the federal government has increasingly deployed the CRPF to handle such incidents and as you can imagine CRPF training is more riot/mob control related and actual combat training has limited focus, although has picked up recently. The CRPF has assisted the army during war times (1965) in a very limited capacity. Even in Kashmir, the forces in habitation areas is increasingly CRPF, while the army oversee and manages the un-demarcated border areas e.g. LAC with Pakistan etc.

The Indian army and air force (drones to seek out Naxal hideouts in the forests) have clearly stated that they are not inclined to get involved and in any event, the government is not very keen to have the army involved. The army is involved in training the CRPF but doubt it will go beyond that.

The reason the CRPF didn’t have sufficient firepower is very simple. They don't have requisite funding. Till 2 years back the state and centre still had not decided who’s headache this is - centre said that its a criminal issue so state police should handle it. Atleast that is settled now and the centre is now co-ordinating with the affected states (Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Orissa, WB) to provide CRPF where required and also increase inter-state corporation to tackle this. Also funding has been increased to train up the CRPF to the required level to handle this. Most informed government experts (as opposed to the ones you see on TV) I have had the occasion to informally speak with suggest that this is more like Punjab i.e. will be managed with time, and less like Kashmir i.e. no end to trouble in the forseeable future.

The usual smuggling route for the weapons is via Gorakhpur (Nepal border) and Bangladesh border. Who the ultimate supplier is anyone's guess.

The basic issue is the tribals land sit upon the largest deposits of iron ore (steel), limestone (cement) and coal (power, steel) in India. The industrialists (politicians in the bag) want it, the tribals have shown the proverbial finger - you know how these fights end unfortunately, the state usually triumphs with catastrophic consequences for the tribal - hope there is a more reasonable outcome.

Apologies if some bits of this is off topic but thought better to provide some context.

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Finn McCool said:

We know what the outcome is. Essentially the same thing has happened in Afghanistan to smaller contingents of NATO troops several times. We know the outcome. Heavy casualties to the Taliban because the NATO soldiers, having superior communications and a doctrine that relies on heavy firepower, call in airstrikes, attack helicopters, and artillery. That's why the Taliban doesn't often try to ambush and overrun NATO troops with large numbers anymore.

The NATO troops are better trained and have better communications and a more clear and responsive chain of command, and therefore resist the initial shock of ambush and retaliate better. All that training means that they can act without thinking to get out of the killzone and return fire and call in heavy firepower. If you put NATO troops in the exact same situation (outnumbered, walking into a well prepared ambush by a much larger force guerilla force that is armed with small arms, and that is on superior terrain) they would suffer casualties, mostly from the IEDs, but wouldn't be overrun and they would kill quite a few of the attackers.

These Indian paramilitary cops were not well trained, their officers were probably incompetent, at least the ones at the top were, they were inexperienced and had probably never seen combat before, and they were essentially out there on their own. It's a recipe for disaster that probably would happen (at least not quite as bad) with the better formations of the Indian Army.

Click to expand...