Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Verum said:

Per capita GDP of Argentina is actually pretty high, why don't they just buy "normal" jets like Typhoon, Rafael, Mig29, F16, or even J10? They definitely have the money for them.

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It is the Socialist government not wanting to give the military any nice toys to the detriment of the nation’s security.

The president and her current group of conspirators were once persecuted by the military junta in the 1970s.

Also, while there is still tension between the British Empire and Argentina, the Typhoon is absolutely out of the question; The British would also block the Rafael and the F-16. That leaves the J-10 and the MiG-29. Chinese are not exporting the J-10 (the only exception possibly being Pakistan) and the MiG-29 has a very low availability rate (mentioned by Peru to Argentina). Also the maintenance on the MiG-29 is excessive and parts (from Russia) are difficult to obtain on a regular basis. Just ask the Peruvians.


Back to bottling my Grenache

Verum said:

... why don't they just buy "normal" jets like Typhoon, Rafael, Mig29, F16, or even J10? They definitely have the money for them.

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Because the current government continues to beat the war drums over the Falklands. The UK is going to do all it can to block any sales of advanced weapons/aircraft to Argentina.

The rules out the Typhoon for sure. The US will back the UK up on this...so there goes the F-16s. France will do the same...particularly if there are any systems on the Rafael produced in England.

As to the Mig-29s? I simply think that they are just to hard to come by in terms of the manufacturing queue.

That leaves the Chinese alternative...which the Chinese are willing to offer in terms of the JF-17. China is not offering the J-10 to anyone right now...despite what you may hear regarding Pakistan.

Miragedriver said:

It is the Socialist government not wanting to give the military any nice toys to the detriment of the nation’s security.

The president and her current group of conspirators were once persecuted by the military junta in the 1970s.

Also, while there is still tension between the British Empire and Argentina, the Typhoon is absolutely out of the question; The British would also block the Rafael and the F-16. That leaves the J-10 and the MiG-29. Chinese are not exporting the J-10 (the only exception possibly being Pakistan) and the MiG-29 has a very low availability rate (mentioned by Peru to Argentina). Also the maintenance on the MiG-29 is excessive and parts (from Russia) are difficult to obtain on a regular basis. Just ask the Peruvians.


Back to bottling my Grenache

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Now that makes more sense to me. I guess it's mostly governmental policies. If they really wanted to acquire new jets, there's always ways to do it, doesn't matter how difficult it may be. But if the government doesn't want to pay for it, then the military is out of luck.

I guess the geopolitical problem does come into play, but not that big of a deal is they are determined. All comes down to how much they want it.

Verum said:

If they really wanted to acquire new jets, there's always ways to do it, doesn't matter how difficult it may be. I guess the geopolitical problem does come into play, but not that big of a deal is they are determined.

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Sorry, Vernum, but the geopolitical for Argentina with respect to the current government's continued insistence regarding the Falklands does most certainly come into play...no matter how big the deal Argentina might want to make.

They do not have enough money, nor could they have enough, to convince the UK to not block advanced aircraft sales of Typhoons, Rafaels, or F-16s...or any other advanced aircraft where the UK can conceivably have a say.

Jeff Head said:

Sorry, Vernum, but the geopolitical for Argentina with respect to the current government's continued insistence regarding the Falklands does most certainly come into play...no matter how big the deal Argentina might want to make.

They do not have enough money, nor could they have enough, to convince the UK to not block advanced aircraft sales of Typhoons, Rafaels, or F-16s...or any other advanced aircraft where the UK can conceivably have a say.

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As stated definitively by Jeff., there are no avenues available for Argentina to aquire Western Combat Aircraft. That basically leaves Russia and China. I am sure that Putin would love to poke the west in the eye and sell some advance aircraft to Argentina to see Britain have a fit. However, the reality is that Russian equipment come with certain price and the miss furtune of having a very unreliable supple of replacement parts and engines need to be overhauled in Russian. That is not convenient in the least.

That basically leaves China to sell aircraft to the FAA. I am sure a deal can be made, since China needs/wants food and mineral resources. The question now stands, what type of aircraft?

J-10: No since it is not on the table as an export aircraft. Pakistan may be the first customer, since they are China's close Allie



FC-1/JF-17: Probable if they can work out the technology transfer issues and agree on the form and amount of compensation.



FTC-2000G (single seat): Know the intelligence quotient of the current administration; they will probably go for the cheap option. This is the least desirable selection. However, with better radar (hopefully Israeli) it could be a good second tier fighter (F-5E level).



L-15 (single seat): Could be another option as a place holder until something else comes along. However, why waste limited defense monies on a combat trainer.



Back to bottling my Grenache

If I were the Air Marshal I would opt for 36 to 42 FC-1/JF-17 and contact the Israelis to acquire some 30 +/- (or however many they have around 30) A-4N and acquire as many of the older A-4H I could for spare parts (hard to come by these days.

After that is underway I would begin to search for a good A-4 replacement


Back to bottling my Grenache

Does anyone have any knowledge, or even a rumor, of the Russia's LFI (logkiy frontovoi istrebitel)


At one time Iran was going to get involved with Russia. However, the program was eventually abandoned by Russia and Iran.


Back to bottling my Grenache

I think Su-30MK2 like Venezuela has could be the best option for Argentine as Argentina is quite big country and Su-30 have longer range and more powerful radar than Mig-29M2. Argentina should buy 24 of them to form 2 fighter squadrons. The other plane, they could buy or even produce in their FMA factory is radar equipped Yak-130, which could replace their aging A-4AR planes as Yak-130 have very similar capabilities, but have 2 engines and more hard points for weapons and full tanks. They could as well be equipped with IFR.

Miragedriver said:

I think Su-30MK2 like Venezuela has could be the best option for Argentine as Argentina is quite big country and Su-30 have longer range and more powerful radar than Mig-29M2. Argentina should buy 24 of them to form 2 fighter squadrons. The other plane, they could buy or even produce in their FMA factory is radar equipped Yak-130, which could replace their aging A-4AR planes as Yak-130 have very similar capabilities, but have 2 engines and more hard points for weapons and full tanks. They could as well be equipped with IFR.

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Could Argentina afford 24 SU-30MK2s?

Clearly such an aircraft would be far superior than anything the Argentines have had before...I am just wondering what such a deal would like in terms of cost to Argentina?

Jeff Head said:

Could Argentina afford 24 SU-30MK2s?

Clearly such an aircraft would be far superior than anything the Argentines have had before...I am just wondering what such a deal would like in terms of cost to Argentina?

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Hello my dear friend Jeff. I’m so glad to hear you are active and well again.

To answer your question. At one time Argentina was trying to negociate with Brazil on the purchase of 24 Gripens for $US 2.5 billion. The Russian offered to sell Iran Su-30s at a price of one billion per squadron (12 aircraft). Venzuela got a similar deal for the Su-27. If Argentina was serious about the making a deal with Brazil. The Russian deal would seem less expensive (in the short term).

Also I’m sure the Russians would take some of the payment in terms of food or facilities. However, facilities come with many geopolitical ramifications.