Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The best reason for why the LCS absolutely must have the LRASM or other long range anti-surface missile is because of what other nations equip their littoral combatants with.

For example:

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
as to the upgrades you suggested, Jeff, wouldn't it be a problem (maybe not at all! I'm just asking)...
Both variants of the LCS were designed to accommodate the Mk-41. The space is already allocated on the Independence class forward of the bridge, and on the Freeom class on the port and starboard sides.

It would add to the cost of the vessels, but would be within design considerations.
 

Scratch

Captain
I do think though, such an armament isn't necessarily the best one for the complete fleet. There may well be instances were a small, fast boat rushing towards the shore to fire a small volley deep in-land or cruise along a cost in a low intensity conflict waiting for targets of opportunity fits the requirenment. And in those instances it relieves the bigger assets for other duties.
However, for boats supposed to operate in the littorals, it should have an armamant that produces effects in the littorals.
The formerly planed and then canceled NLOS-LS was good weapon. Able to attack targets in excess of 20NM inland, a range and warhead size very nicely suited to support amphibious or littoral operations.
The 57mm gun might be a little light for some targets, and the Hellfires that are supposed to be on the ships are a little short legged.
Something like an increased range "Sea Griffin" would have been a nice idea, IMO.
 

Brumby

Major
Both variants of the LCS were designed to accommodate the Mk-41. The space is already allocated on the Independence class forward of the bridge, and on the Freeom class on the port and starboard sides.

It would add to the cost of the vessels, but would be within design considerations.

Problem is only LCS-3 and LCS-5 have met their SLA. Adding a fully loaded MK-41 probably is out of the question without structural changes either to the hull or stern with the existing built. They should be putting out contract changes to the rest if they are serious about adding MK-41 - I think.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The best reason for why the LCS absolutely must have the LRASM or other long range anti-surface missile is because of what other nations equip their littoral combatants with.

For example:

attachment.php

I used to think this as well, but considering they've cut their LCS order and that the USN already has such a large number of other very capable surface combatants and plan to build a future frigate class anyway, I think the USN can afford to have a small fraction of their surface combatants with minimal armament.

I think the most affordable way to arm existing LCS is to stick two dual slant harpoon launchers behind the main gun
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I used to think this as well, but considering they've cut their LCS order and that the USN already has such a large number of other very capable surface combatants and plan to build a future frigate class anyway, I think the USN can afford to have a small fraction of their surface combatants with minimal armament.

I think the most affordable way to arm existing LCS is to stick two dual slant harpoon launchers behind the main gun
Harpoons would work fine for me...but given the service life expectancy for these vessels, would probably end up as an interim solution.

But, as I say, that also would be fine for me.
 
Harpoons would work fine for me...but given the service life expectancy for these vessels, would probably end up as an interim solution.

But, as I say, that also would be fine for me.

the official (I took it from the GAO document I linked in http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/littoral-combat-ships-lcs-36-3993.html#post298850) seems to be:

Mission package SURFACE WARFARE (24 planned)
Increment 1: MK 46 30 millimeter
2: Maritime security module (2 teams and associated equipment)
3: Vertical take-off unmanned aerial vehicle
3: Surface-to-surface missile
4: Surface-to-surface missile upgrade (if needed)

(I quickly retyped that from p. 14 (out of 60), have to run for work now :)
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
the official (I took it from the GAO document I linked in http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/littoral-combat-ships-lcs-36-3993.html#post298850) seems to be:

Mission package SURFACE WARFARE (24 planned)
Increment 1: MK 46 30 millimeter
2: Maritime security module (2 teams and associated equipment)
3: Vertical take-off unmanned aerial vehicle
3: Surface-to-surface missile
4: Surface-to-surface missile upgrade (if needed)

(I quickly retyped that from p. 14 (out of 60), have to run for work now :)
Yes, that is the current plan...but I believe change is in the wind that will impact the surface to surface upgrade mentioned.

We shall see.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
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Defense Tech said:
Lockheed Martin is offering the Navy a slightly heavier, technologically re-configured multi-warfare variant of the Littoral Combat Ship that has added survivability features such as built in vertical launch tubes and a stronger radar.

It is part of Lockheed’s submission to the Navy’s Small Surface Combatant Task Force’s, or SSCTF, solicitation asking industry to come up with specs and designs for a new multi-mission surface ship engineered to address and correct some of the problems with the LCS.

Lockheed’s offering, which is based on their international variant of the LCS, is designed to engineer certain technologies into the hull itself, such as sonar. This approach is intended to prevent the need to swap out “mission packages” or sets of technologies as is currently the case with the LCS.

“We took the 118-meter hull and turned it into more of a multi-warfare platform. Multi-warfare means you have anti-submarine warfare capability built into the hull along with surface and anti-air capability,” said Joe North, vice president of Littoral Ship Systems, Lockheed Martin. “It is basically putting everything in the hull that allows you to not have to swap out mission packages – and perform those missions with a single ship.”

The new ship design weighs 3,600 tons which is slightly more than the current LCS weight of 3,400 tons, North said.

Other technological adaptations include the use of a sophisticated anti-air radar than the one used by the LCS that allows for greater distance with air coverage, North added.

“You basically would integrate the radar with guns that you have on the ship, whether that be a 57mm or 76mm gun. You would put in a vertical launch capability which allows it to bring aboard missiles and address threats from over the horizon and for ASW (anti-submarine warfare) you would add sonar to the ship,” he explained.

The SSCTF emerged out of a request from Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel earlier this year stating that the Navy issued no new contracts for the LCS beyond 32 ships. The Navy had been planning to buy 52 LCS vessels as they were originally configured.

As part of this announcement, Hagel instructed the Navy to examine alternative proposals for the remaining 20 ships that, among other things, offered more survivable designs.

Navy officials said the service still has a requirement for 52 LCS’ and that the SSCTF is exploring what the last 20 ships in the class will look like.

The Navy recently evaluated a range of proposals for the ship but has not yet announced its findings or identified the direction it plans to go in regarding the new vessel.

North added that the steel hull of the LCS design could be stretched and additional seven to 10 meters in order to accommodate more weapons systems.

The Lockheed offering to the Navy is based upon a special design configured for international sales. North said international interest in purchasing the ship from navies around the world continues to grow, particularly in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

So far, Lockheed has delivered two of its Freedom-variant LCS vessels and six more are in production, North said. LCS 7 is slated to launch in October of this year, he added.

“The Navy will have eight of these ships in their hands by the end of next year,” North said.

As expected, Lockheed is going to lead eith the full upgraded LCS, multi-mission variant. It would be a good vessel, but expect its cost to rise fairly significantly.

I belive they could lower the cost, and come up with an upgrade to the existing hulls, without quite as robust/complex a radar suite, but something that will still able to handle an 8-cell Mk-41 with 16 ESSMs and ultimately four LRASMs (using a quad Harpoon mount unil the LRASM was available), TAS, two MH-60Rs, etc. over this full-up, agree LCS.

But that is just my opinion.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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What kind of additional sensors would an ESSM fit require? I imagine they would need terminal illuminators of some sort. I suspect their current small sized MFRs shouldn't need to be changed though... but even then, even adding one or two terminal illuminators and VLS will be pretty costly for an already expensive ship.

And regarding ASW, isn't LCS meant to feature an ASW suite including VDS and TAS anyway, or am I trippin?
 
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