Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

Brumby

Brumby

Major
dtulsa said:
Agreed just wish there was a way to reconcile the difference's so the navy gets a ship that's fully functional on the surface and for AAW
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I can relate to that. Currently the force structure with the USN is basically a low-high end mix with nothing in between. A point that is unaddressed in my mind is what about a mid range vessel? Basically a Burke lite dedicated to ASW but with capable self defence both from air and surface threats. Essentially a $900 million to $1.1 Billion vessel close to a European type frigate. The rationale is with quantity because the Burke's are too stretched with emphasis on BMD and on area air defence. There is a numbers gap in ASW with vessels that can survive in high intensity environment. We were hopeful that the last 20 units would be closer to this concept when the then Secretary of Defence Chuck Hagel ordered a review but the outcome appears to be more of a window dressing exercise. Re-designating an up-armed LCS as a Frigate doesn't make it so. It must be in its capabilities against present and future threats.

Wayne Hughes in his book "A New Navy Fighting Machine" emphasized a fleet configuration geared for future threats and not just simply reshuffling the same deck of cards.
 
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dtulsa

Junior Member
If I read the article correctly it stated that they would be limited in speed to around 37 knots but I may have not read it right isn't that the sane speed as the new ssc supposed to be.

Just read the article from defense news these ships are going to be impressive not only do they have the aforementioned weapons but added to that are torpedo tubes sounds like they thought of everything may senator McCain is looking also
 
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Well, Jura...they just hatched.

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MMSC-01.jpg​

Naval Today said:
The U.S. government approved a possible sale of four Lockheed Martin Corp multi-mission warships to Saudi Arabia, October 20.

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified the U.S. Congress about the possible sale of a derivative of the US Navy’s Freedom-variant Littoral Combat Ships, made by Lockheed Martin, and program office support to Saudi Arabia on Oct 19.

This purchase is part of the Saudi Navy’s modernization efforts under the Saudi Naval Expansion Program II, also called SNEP II, which had long been discussed and prepared by U.S. and Saudi Arabian experts.

According to an announcement issued by the DSCA the sale would include four Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) ships and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of 11.25 billion dollars.

In addition to the ships, Saudi Arabia is purchasing ESSM missiles, Harpoon Ship Command Launch Systems, RGM 84 Harpoon Block Missiles and machine guns, among others.

This extensive sale will also include engineering operations, training facilities, spare and repair parts and communications equipment.[/center]
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Brumby

Brumby

Major
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A lot more details being offered from this source on the Saudi deal. Officially, it is the Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC). Some reconciling items why such a high price tag is the Saudi will be paying for the development cost of this variant; the full integration cost of all the new systems not found in the US design; and massive spares.
You can tell that the Saudis are looking to get the most out of these ships and are really preparing to use them should they have to as they bought a massive weapons package to go along with them. This includes enough ESSMs to restock their fleet eight times without having to be resupplied.

The deal’s total weapons package includes 532 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles, 48 RGM-84 Harpoon Block II Missiles, 188 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles, and 48 .50 caliber machine guns for close-in defense and force protection.
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Clearly this is the type of LCS that Jeff wanted for the USN.
 
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dtulsa

Junior Member
Brumby said:
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A lot more details being offered from this source on the Saudi deal. Officially, it is the Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC). Some reconciling items why such a high price tag is the Saudi will be paying for the development cost of this variant; the full integration cost of all the new systems not found in the US design; and massive spares.


Clearly this is the type of LCS that Jeff wanted for the USN.
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I know, maybe this will open some eyes in D.C. we can hope for that remember that the Saudi 'sbought the M1A2 first as I recall could be some jealousy about the new ship's and I don't think they would costs as much because we could draw on our stock of weapons for instance and I think the Saudi 's are picking up the tab for development don't think it will be under current admin though they got their hands full already

I think we all wanted them
 
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Registered Member
Brumby said:
A lot more details being offered from this source on the Saudi deal. Officially, it is the Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC).

Article said:
This includes enough ESSMs to restock their fleet eight times without having to be resupplied.
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Clearly this is the type of LCS that Jeff wanted for the USN.
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Yep it sure would be...if priced right.

But, to the article's claim of reloading the entire fleet eight times...they have messed up their math.

Each of the Saudi vessels could max out at 64 ESSM. If you multiply that by four and you get 256 missiles.

So the bulk purchase really allows them to totally reload the entire fleet twice. I think the folks who wrote the article were confused between reloading the entire fleet, and reloading a single vessel eight times.

As it is, IMHO, a really neat opportunity will exist for the US Navy. Since the FFs have not been built yet...or even started building...the US Navy should let this new design slip into becoming the 20 FFs. Saudi Arabia is going to pay for the design...so that will get done on them.

The US would need to negotiate a deal with Lockheed to get good pricing...but 20 of these vessels, if they could get them for say $750-850 million each, would be one heck of a deal...and indeed, just what the Dr. ordered IMHO.

Let Lockheed built the Saudi four first...and expedite it...then just keep on building them...except now for the US Navy.

Hehehe...then the quad canister Harpoons could easily go away to be replaced by VL LRASMs or NSMs. Lots of neat things could happen then.

That's what I would hold out for...and a new administration supported by a united OCngress could make that happen before the current FF deal ever starts.
 
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dtulsa

Junior Member
Brumby said:
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A lot more details being offered from this source on the Saudi deal. Officially, it is the Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC). Some reconciling items why such a high price tag is the Saudi will be paying for the development cost of this variant; the full integration cost of all the new systems not found in the US design; and massive spares.


Clearly this is the type of LCS that Jeff wanted for the USN.
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Brumby that's the best way to put it lets hope the brass and politicians agree with all of us, I posted before I read this new article sorry about that
 
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