I don't disagree that Chinese people are more compliant with government mandates, but a similar example would be Victoria,Australia which arguably endured a longer complete lock down than anywhere in China did practically.
Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario
- Thread starter tphuang
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Easy disproof of your theory that westerners can handle equal sacrifice: NIMBYism.
They would rather keep the built environment of 1975 and deal with extreme inefficiency and inflation, than to do literally anything.
Just because money on a spreadsheet is allocated to something, doesn't mean it happens. The event happening means it happens. Otherwise the money being reallocated yet not being effectively used just means inflation for everyone else.
And generally, some countries have shown that they are utterly incapable of tackling NIMBYism to the degree where it is causing massive drags on its real economy.
solarz
Brigadier
I don't think you realize what a lockdown entails in China.
Chinese people are not "more compliant", they are more willing to sacrifice short term luxury for long-term gain.
if Biden is not a madman like Putin, he would not bother China inside its homeland to begin with
US extrapolations of noise levels which have not been true ever since the Victor III attack submarine came out. Since US subs could not compete with Russian attack submarines in speed (vs Alfa class submarine with lead cooled reactor) or crush depth (vs Sierra class submarine with titanium hull) they had to find something they were better at back then and claim it as a victory. US submarines might have an advantage in sensors but they have zero advantage in terms of propulsion or noise levels.
I'd buy that most recent US nuclear subs are quieter than Russian ones, given that Russians lost a lot of time and resources due to USSR breakup.
But when it comes home waters defense, SSKs are superior and China is among the lead on SSK tech. China is also using their long experience and skill with making SSKs to make equally quiet SSNs nowadays. The mod 2022 093B should be nearly on par with Virginia class, and the 095 will be equal or slightly better.
SSK = ideal to defend Taiwan from US. SSN = ideal to pursue counteroffensive after the first wave of Americans have been repelled, and to hit them in the rear to prevent a cohesive attack.
The Virginia class is basically a cheap mass produced version of the Seawolf submarine of the late Cold War. It has worse top speed, dive depth, and noise levels than the Seawolf. They replaced the electronics with off the shelf hardware to lower costs, and they added more modern sensors. There is nothing particularly special about the Virginia class, it is just that it has been produced in larger numbers than any other attack submarine.
One good evidence of how obsolete the Virginia class is, in particular its electronics and combat systems, is if you compare crew sizes of the Virginia class and the Yasen-M class. 135 vs 64. The Virginia class is way less automated than the Yasen-M class so it needs twice the crew. And it has worse top speed, dive depth, and questionable noise levels. The Virginia class weapons payload is also worse. It can only carry the subsonic Tomahawk, and the Yasen-M can carry all the versions of the subsonic Kalibr (including anti-submarine ones), the Oniks Mach 3 cruise missile, and soon the Zircon Mach 10 cruise missile. The Virginia class also has less VLS cells and torpedo tubes than the Yasen-M.
As for the US Ohio class SSBN it dates from the Cold War period. It is a 1970s design so I do not know why @tphuang thinks it is all that good.
One good evidence of how obsolete the Virginia class is, in particular its electronics and combat systems, is if you compare crew sizes of the Virginia class and the Yasen-M class. 135 vs 64. The Virginia class is way less automated than the Yasen-M class so it needs twice the crew. And it has worse top speed, dive depth, and questionable noise levels. The Virginia class weapons payload is also worse. It can only carry the subsonic Tomahawk, and the Yasen-M can carry all the versions of the subsonic Kalibr (including anti-submarine ones), the Oniks Mach 3 cruise missile, and soon the Zircon Mach 10 cruise missile. The Virginia class also has less VLS cells and torpedo tubes than the Yasen-M.
As for the US Ohio class SSBN it dates from the Cold War period. It is a 1970s design so I do not know why @tphuang thinks it is all that good.
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That's where you got it wrong. Compliance is following orders without necessarily out of self determination. Chinese people on the lock-down and hardship accompanied with it are self determined. It is a fundamental wrong understanding in the west that leads to the so-called "draconian rule in China".
Why is compliance seen as some kind of boogeyman word? It can be positive or negative, the tone is neutral. While China had short burst of very strict lockdowns and travel restrictions, it was not continuous for 6+ months like some parts of Australia's was, granted the Australian population was basically given money to sit at home, so obviously Chinese people are more self sacrificing when compared against them.
While in hindsight people are feeling neutral about lockdowns now, during the peak before vaccines became a thing the populace broadly supported strict lockdown measures.
solarz
Brigadier
It's not "boogeyman", it's simply inaccurate.
Anyone with a passing familiarity with Chinese society would know that the Chinese people are anything but compliant.
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