Ladakh Flash Point

Status
Not open for further replies.

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
What our dear Jeff M. Smith really meant to say: "go on, Indians, go throw yourselves at the bayonets of the Chinese. That would save the Western World!"

Brought to you by an American "conservative think tank" ... lol. Great minds working towards an equitable, fair, honest, decent world... through deceit, manipulation, and cheap words like "India will not be cowed or coerced"... meaningless phrases if one truly think about them. The pros and experts of meaningless phrases full of loaded questions and assumptions and saying nothing while saying a lot.

The Indian bhakts and ultra nationalists cannot accept that China took over the stretch and controlled it and only disengaged after talks where India walked back on their encroachment. That India is the one who instigated this. It is unacceptable to think that India could possibly be the aggressor on this front back 2019 to 2020 and China responded. If China's aim was to capture the stretch, why would it capture it and then disengage with no real military engagement happening at all. After all, China took it over and held it for 9 months. If they intended to do as the bhakts say, why would they disengage? The bhakts would say it's because China is oh so afraid of supa India but they forget China captured dozens upon dozens of Indians.

The Indians also didn't start shooting. If India is so strong why didn't India start fighting the war since China took up to finger 4? The bhakts' story adds positive integers into a negative sum. The reality is China wants total stability here on these borders. India's reneging of Article 370 promised some instability in the backdrop of Doklam drama. Modi was militarising Hindutva and that is clear as day now while it was building to this clarity for the last half decade. China wanted an assured buffer that disintegrated with increased Indian patrolling (as admitted to by VK Singh) to 2020. India understandably wants to work towards de facto control of that stretch of land with similar salami slicing tactics China employed between 1962 and 2000s.

So where is the resistance part. The words from the "conservative think tank" from USA is so out of place and has no relevance. How can india be resisting against a bilateral dispute that's existed for 70 odd years and a situation it has built up alone or at the very least contributed to flaring up.

Should we remind Mr. Smith that China is offering total buffer deal along this stretch and it is India that is refusing to convert total buffer. It is therefore India that has a desire to eventually control the remaining stretch as it claims 100x more land beyond this tiny stretch - Aksai Chin.

As is usual, the western power is devilishly manipulative and while India is not necessarily a pawn in this game, it is a willing partner of the method as it stands to gain from riding that path and partnering up for now. However these little nothings have close to zero real consequence as long as the real decision makers are aware of all the truths and complexities to the micro problem and the macro problem. I'm speaking of course about Chinese leadership being aware of what the US is about and why it says what it says when it does. India is understandably frustrated at all the drama as it is unwilling to admit and realise that it never controlled Aksai Chin in its pre-British history which btw was not even of a nation. This stretch is Tibetan and as such, it is Chinese land.
 
Last edited:

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Those American conservatives like Jeff M. Smith, and Jesse Kelly aka 'Type A men to sit on the throne of Chinese skulls', are gutless cowards deep down. They are wet dreaming of India fighting China on America's behalf. Its the perfect scenario for them. China the rising superpower, and India the apparent rising 'supapowar' destroying each other. Leaving America untouched and ready to reap the benefits. Its never gonna happen.

India cannot, and dares not wage a major war with China. India is waiting for the US to take the lead, hoping that the US would balance out China for them. The US is too loathed to take the ugly casualties from a war with China. So it hopes for India to bleed lives for it. Therefore both are waiting for each other to make a move.

America doesn't want to get into an ugly war. While India is too scared to take on China. China is just too formidable to pick a fight with. Both of them know deep down that they don't have the balls to do it. So both of them turn to fantasizing victories over China. This is the best scenario for world peace.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
This guy isn't making much sense.

India invaded the previous no man's land and disrupted the previous de facto buffer. China resisted India and responded by placing PLA within that stretch of previous buffer. A year of confrontations and then negotiations restore the buffer (mostly) with some unknown levels of troop presence remaining from both sides.

Of course some American think tankers who are always anti-China on every single topic and domain is not going to say the full set of truth. Instead providing nonsensical sentences like India has resisted China with the loaded part being China is somehow actively invading India. You know this isn't what happened. You know the whole conflict has been over disputed stretch that was previously a buffer. You also know that China occupied it with India unable to militarily overturn that. The negotiations restored buffer to many confrontation points and India pulled back two steps in exchange for China pulling back on forward positions that it only occupied after flare ups.
India is still occupying the disputed area in Galwan, as shown by the recently released picture. Prior to 2020, India had no camps in Galwan. China's position is in the settled 80%, as you call it.
 
Last edited:

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
India is still occupying the disputed area in Galwan, as shown by the recently released picture. Prior to 2020, India had no camps in Galwan. China's position is in the settled 80%, as you call it.

Which recently released picture? India is occupying Finger 4 to Finger 8 as well? And the converted buffer of Galwan valley? Please.

India does not control the 20% (as I call it). Lots of the 20% have been converted to buffer and India and China both have some presence within the 20% but nowhere near as much as they had in early 2020 when the flare up were at its peak.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Which recently released picture? India is occupying Finger 4 to Finger 8 as well? And the converted buffer of Galwan valley? Please.

India does not control the 20% (as I call it). Lots of the 20% have been converted to buffer and India and China both have some presence within the 20% but nowhere near as much as they had in early 2020 when the flare up were at its peak.
I was referring to the Galwan valley picture recently released. In Galwan the disputed section is roughly 5 km from the mouth, of which about a km is buffer. Past the 5km is where the settled 80% falls, which is where China's photo was taken.

And since you brought up Pangong again, China was patrolling the disputed stretch of pangong far more than India, according to Col. Dinny, who actually served there. That was until China was forced to move back to Sirjiap and agree to to a buffer zone, and now China cannot patrol to it's claims as it was doing before 2020
 
Last edited:

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I was referring to the Galwan valley picture recently released. In Galwan the disputed section is roughly 5 km from the mouth, of which about a km is buffer. Past the 5km is where the settled 80% falls, which is where China's photo was taken.

Incorrect, the Indian photo was taken on India proper. Indian side and not within the 20%. You should stop making random claims with zero evidence.

The disputed stretch is highly contentious and while both sides maintain some unknown (to us) levels of presence within them still, neither side are taking flag photos New Year celebrations within the 20%.

wer.jpg

This photo was taken so far within Indian territory China didn't even mention it or pay it attention.

Meanwhile India chucked a major fit with China's New Year photos.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Incorrect, the Indian photo was taken on India proper. Indian side and not within the 20%.
I thought we earlier agreed that roughly 5 km of Galwan valley from the river mouth was disputed? At least that is what the Chinese Ministry of FA implied.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Incorrect, the Indian photo was taken on India proper. Indian side and not within the 20%. You should stop making random claims with zero evidence.

The disputed stretch is highly contentious and while both sides maintain some unknown (to us) levels of presence within them still, neither side are taking flag photos New Year celebrations within the 20%.

View attachment 81038

This photo was taken so far within Indian territory China didn't even mention it or pay it attention.

Meanwhile India chucked a major fit with China's New Year photos.
No, that photo was about 1.5 km from the clash site, just outside the buffer.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Meanwhile this shows the truth on who is the aggressor and who truly countered who.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


"in August 2019, Union Home Minister Amit Shah
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to shed blood for Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and Aksai Chin, occupied by China"


India tried to make a move on Aksai Chin as promised officially by India's Home Minister. India increased patrols, increased infrastructure build up (mirroring China's own) on the 20% stretch adjacent to Aksai Chin. China responded. India faltered. Buffer restored but this time with India signing agreements making buffer zones more official than they were in the past. India however has not agreed to a total buffer of 20% because it would mean being cut off from Aksai Chin which is claimed by India and controlled by China.

Are these not the facts?

It would appear that India mounted an effort to take over 20% as a start, China countered India and India lost.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I thought we earlier agreed that roughly 5 km of Galwan valley from the river mouth was disputed? At least that is what the Chinese Ministry of FA implied.

What? Lol please you gotta stop making stuff up that suits you. I don't think I was a part of your conversation with Xsizor on that topic. Not sure what you two "agreed" on and anything you two agreed on anyway has no bearing in the real world.

No, that photo was about 1.5 km from the clash site, just outside the buffer.

Yeah the photo just like I said was on Indian side. Lol.

Basically Indians took a photo on their side because they felt they needed to since China posted a photo of PLA on China's side over the New Year.

But what I don't get is why supapowan Indians want to present their dumb little photo of Indians posing on Indian side as if that is some victory. Why are you guys so damn insistent on looking like you are victors. Spinning every single thing on this issue.

When PLA captured your soldiers in their many, many dozens in not over a hundred (Hint PLA collected over 40 Indian INSAS rifles and only about 1 in 10 Indians were holding rifles)... you guys denied denied denied and had to believe in fantasy like PLA used Pakistani actors LOL!

Do you at least admit PLA captured so many Indians we can't even count them accurately just from photos alone?

So the denial from Indian side is intense to the point the only video and photo of an instance they have where Indians were beating up a PLA officer, the Indians edited the video from the original just to hide the fact that they were in a massive Indian horde, beating up a PLA officer by himself who only exited his vehicle to engage in talks. Not looking good for India.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top