Ladakh Flash Point

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Guys stop arguing with twineedle Troll. Stop feeding the troll.

However, one thing twineedle admitt: "India is ready to throw patrol points away because it's now hard to patrol."

Why, because China made it hard for india to patrol and india throw them away alone with 1000 square km of territory !

Enough said.

Xsizor said:

Bold 1: True. India's interpretation of Galwan Valley extends only to the Y junction. China takes it as along the whole Gallowan River .

(China has begun pushing it. India gets the credit for rekindling the flames)

Bold 2: AL Jazeera is following Indian governments take. If Indian gov isn't contesting it then why should Google Maps or even AL Jazeera change it.

Bold 3: OH, I know.

Bold 4: Sure. No one claimed otherwise. Weather and Climate inflicts limitation to both sides.

Bold 5: Irrelevant. No one claimed otherwise. Did anyone here claim India had occupied there? No.

Bold 6: If Siachen isn't an issue (regarding climate and environment) then this area must be too. Or are you implying India is ready to throw patrol points away just because it's hard to patrol?

It's upto the government to decide the borders. Soldiers don't. They either run with the narrative or they don't. Ultimately it's a question of soldier's personal takes regarding faith to country, nation, government etc.

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Wait so are you saying that China DOES claim the entire valley? That is the first time I have heard anyone here say that.
And who is saying anything about throwing away patrol points? It is pretty hard to build camps on land that is flooded several months a year. India has conducted patrols up to about the bend, when environmental factors are favorable(which is during a few months in the fall and Spring, and when snow melt isn't too much during the summer) That is what I have been saying this entire thread.

I don't really disagree with anything else you said.

Oh btw, Gallowan is the english spelling. The Galwan is named after Kashmiri explorer Ghulam Rasool Galwan, who discovered it. I am curious to know what the Chinese name for the river is

JSL said:

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Guys stop arguing with twineedle Troll. Stop feeding the troll.

However, one thing twineedle admitt: "India is ready to throw patrol points away because it's now hard to patrol."

Why, because China made it hard for india to patrol and india throw them away alone with 1000 square km of territory !

Enough said.

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Still going with the 1000 km narrative, that has already been debunked by satellite imagery, Indian and non indian sources, and even China's own official narrative. Whatever helps you cope with China's retreat I guess.

Indian media is again becoming Jumpy on two upcoming events,Quad Virtual Summit and Raisina dialogue.Both forums will be used to target China and Chinese leadership,need for an informed debate

twineedle said:

Still going with the 1000 km narrative, that has already been debunked by satellite imagery, Indian and non indian sources, and even China's own official narrative. Whatever helps you cope with China's retreat I guess.

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ground reality suggest that Indian army(the 3rd largest in the world) lost approximately 1450 sq kms area in Ladakh,even Rahul Gandhi stated that..debunking is just Godi Media narrative

twineedle said:

Still going with the 1000 km narrative, that has already been debunked by satellite imagery, Indian and non indian sources, and even China's own official narrative. Whatever helps you cope with China's retreat I guess.

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Indian soldiers died and the Indian government begged for a China deal all so people like you can go online and brag about some "retreat" from China as a way to cope with being Indian and always on the failing side. China doesn't have to go back, there's no force stopping the PLA for moving forward (except maybe weather and terrain when applicable). And after moving through, capturing New Delhi and getting an Indian surrender, then what? After they go home, Indians will cheer the PLA "retreat" again LOL Unless and until the PLA actually ends India as a country, whenever China goes home after dishing India a beating, Indians will always cling to the "retreat" as a final shred of imaginary dignity for themselves and their forever stricken country.

twineedle said:

Wait so are you saying that China DOES claim the entire valley? That is the first time I have heard anyone here say that.
And who is saying anything about throwing away patrol points? It is pretty hard to build camps on land that is flooded several months a year. India has conducted patrols up to about the bend, when environmental factors are favorable(which is during a few months in the fall and Spring, and when snow melt isn't too much during the summer) That is what I have been saying this entire thread.

I don't really disagree with anything else you said.

Oh btw, Gallowan is the english spelling. The Galwan is named after Kashmiri explorer Ghulam Rasool Galwan, who discovered it. I am curious to know what the Chinese name for the river is

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China has most of the Galwan Valley. I read China claims (or may claim) entirety of the valley after the incident.

I was of the impression that you were still beating the dead horse of PP14 location and are trying to blame the weather for India not going back to the old patrol points. If else, no issues.

So Galwan Valley belongs to Pakistan? Nice. Heh.
Whatever.
Most of that Valley and river is in China.

twineedle said:

Still going with the 1000 km narrative, that has already been debunked by satellite imagery, Indian and non indian sources, and even China's own official narrative. Whatever helps you cope with China's retreat I guess.

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A glimmer of hope but alas, it was short lived.

Bold 1: You didn't debunk anything. The 1000 km lost is the loss of patrol access to the sum of Depsang and other regions. No satellite imagery proves otherwise.

Bold 2: Here we go, again.

Btw, @twineedle I know what you are trying to do here regarding Galwan valley.

1. You are trying to say that India patrolled to the Y junction PP14 just before winter.

2. You blame the lack of patrols during winter on weather

3. You still hold on to the 500m /800 m post line of thinking, still betting on the Twitter satellite analyst.

I don't think I need to contest it. Refer previous posts on it.


Disengagement has been announced at the region. It goes as per this map.

China claims to dashed line. What's so hard to get. That is beyond the blue line which also is the limit of what China used to control and probably only still controls (assuming disengagement at Depsang and Galwan is actually true and complete. This is twineedle's assumption and the only evidence he's got is a random twitter account claiming this because satellite footage of one or two point edges of that dotted line shows PLA troops occupied it and then moved away. Whether they moved away 3km back to the blue line or they moved 200m away is unknown.

For some incredible India level logic, PLA moving away from two points at the forward position at Galwan valley is somehow equivalent to the total 3km moving back of PLA back to the blue line where China actually controls and India still claims to and then another 20 or so km (Aksai Chin).



China hasn't lost an inch of territory. It's only occupied Indian claimed land (disputed between the two) and moved back at Pangong. It is unknown what the situation is at Depsang and Galwan. At least it's not 100% clear to Jai Hinds. While their guesses and hopes may be correct, it is nonetheless flimsy conjecture to claim PLA has never been beyond the blue line for long. Well for starters, the violent clashes happened beyond the blue line and satellite shows PLA camped beyond the blue line and while two photos show river bank flooding and both sides not occupying bend, this doesn't truly prove anything on the topic of whether PLA has some presence beyond the blue line in Depsang or Galwan valley/river.

PLA moving away from Pangong F4 back to F8 is not a retreat if you consider that the only reason PLA moved back is because India agreed it will not go beyond F3 and of course will not patrol anything beyond F3. This is a change from the past where India both patrolled beyond F3 and while they still claim to F8, if they can't take a step beyond F3 as they have agreed, then what use is claiming to F8? lol the agreement they gave China essentially makes their claim to F8 completely redundant. The only way these worthless Jai Hinds can cope with this is by lying and saying that India never patrolled beyond F3 LOL..... then they realised how stupid this claim is and changed it to India "rarely" patrolled beyond F3. Okayyyyyyy Rakesh. Your own four star general says India violates LAC and intrudes past it (LAC somewhere between F4 and F8 by definition) more than 5 times as often as PLA does.

The only ones coping with this is the Jai Hinds who need to soothe themselves with the dressed up misunderstanding of what PLA retreat entails for them. Have they forgotten the PLA "retreat" came at the cost of Indian retreat to behind F3 and never stepping foot on their claims again (unless they violate their own agreement which was the only thing that convinced China to remove PLA). Without Indian surrender, there would be no PLA retreat. IA fought and pushed PLA but couldn't defeat PLA. There was nothing to stop PLA from taking. The only reason PLA was ordered back by China was because India agreed to certain things that are more than clear and obvious enough but Jai Hinds will not mention this at all or even recognise it. This shit is worse than that pathetic Alpha Jai Hind Defence moron arguing with the only slightly more reasonable Red Effect guy. It's a funny shit show and this drama is beginning to become almost comedic with elements of Jai Hind denial and cope.

PLA "retreated" because India surrendered F4 to F8. If India managed to push back PLA by force, then that's another story. If India started the shooting war, that's another story. India was able to do neither.