Ladakh Flash Point

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
Why are you talking about what happened last decade? I thought this thread was about the current standoff. And there are far more Indian media outlets saying India did not lose territory, many of them fairly reputable. If Indian media is as reliable as you claim, that means you will have to take pro-gov/Modi media as seriously as anti-gov. sources.

And unlike media, satellite imagery cannot lie.

But unlike media, Satellite imagery cannot speak. Anyone can twist stories out of few images, especially if they got no idea about where lies actual patrol points, if they use dated ones and if they have an agenda

Last decade refers to Depsang.

Current standoff - Hot Springs, Galwan, Gogra.

lgnxz · Mar 7, 2021

@Xsizor just stop using some random indians about which one is india's actual position. This guy can just easily muddle the discussion of about how this source is anti-modi, this is different, blablabla, it will never end.

Just use what China actually consider to be its own. You don't go around asking chinese either about what indians perceived to be theirs. Overlapping claim is normal and common against these people, we just should fight for it like we did on June 15.

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
Col. Dinny's interview was on Pangong, not Galwan. His interview was about Indian patrols on pangong, not Galwan.

Pardon then. I have no specific interest in what some soldier says (except when it is used to claim lofty things)

Dinny or No dinny, India had its LAC shifted by this disengagement.

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

lgnxz said:
@Xsizor just stop using some random indians about which one is india's actual position. This guy can just easily muddle the discussion of about how this source is anti-modi, this is different, blablabla, it will never end.

Just use what China actually consider to be its own. You don't go around asking chinese either about what indians perceived to be theirs. Overlapping claim is normal and common against these people, we just should fight for it like we did on June 15.

He does. But ultimately, He is the one claiming things.

I can promise you, later he will come back with the usual talking points

1. China retreated 60 km
2. India secured Galwan Valley
3. India has Hot Springs and Gogra under control
4. DBSO road is secured
5. India managed to thwart China

Yada Yada. You get it. It's endless. Then I've to counter it again using indian media itself.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

So one source says something, and we are supposed to take it seriously. YEt 10 sources say something else, and they are all lying? I guess some mebers here are still coping with China's retreat, so now they are digging up articles from dubious sources to claim that the lac shifted, even though it is exactly in line with what is clearly shown on google Earth. It was CHina that tried to change the LAC, and failed.

And if the government had gone by the 1962 status quo(which is shown on google) then isn't that where the lac is? The governmetn decides where borders and patrolling limits are, not a single agenda-driven "veteran"

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

lgnxz said:
Ok, can you pinpoint the exact time of the damming happened then? Is it as early as April?

Merely damming river also cannot be equated with actual military buildup on the estuary and crossing to pp14 with full-geared soldiers. There has been many times when China has made attempt to deescalate it, like June 6 agreement, but you clearly didn't heed it.

Who cares about random indian A or random indian B decide which is LAC. If you want to know what China perceives as its LAC, you ask China, and China considered pp14 as its own. Any other BS from, either if the LAC is until galwan mouth, or the LAC is behind pp14 are just your make believe.

If that's the case, why did China retreat from pp14? prior to 2020, neither side had any camps or infra near there, so by withdrawing, China restored status quo ante.

Oh, and I am still waiting to see the territory India supposedly lost.

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
So one source says something, and we are supposed to take it seriously. YEt 10 sources say something else, and they are all lying? I guess some mebers here are still coping with China's retreat, so now they are digging up articles from dubious sources to claim that the lac shifted, even though it is exactly in line with what is clearly shown on google Earth. It was CHina that tried to change the LAC, and failed.

They might even be technically not lying.
If Indian government has shifted PP14 from old to new position, then these soldiers aren't lying to some extend.

Bold 2: There you go @lgnxz I told ya.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

Xsizor said:
They might even be technically not lying.
If Indian government has shifted PP14 from old to new position, then these soldiers aren't lying to some extend.

Bold 2: There you go @lgnxz I told ya.

The Indian government has recognized the 1962 status quo as the lac. as shown by this image by the wire(the same outlet pravin sawhney writes for).
Maybe that wasn't the case in the 1970s, when Brig RJS served there. Or perhaps he is just mistaken as to the exact distance from pp14 to the lac.

However, it is the Indian gov. that determines where the LAC is. not Ajai Shukla. And for at least decades, India has recognized the 1962 status quo as the lac, which is also shown on google maps.

lgnxz · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
If that's the case, why did China retreat from pp14? prior to 2020, neither side had any camps or infra near there, so by withdrawing, China restored status quo ante.

If status quo is restored, aka indians getting kicked about of its attempt of changing the status quo, why's that considered to be China losing against India? I also already give you multiple examples in the past on how PLA often withdraws when their objective is already met, so stop with this meaningless ego stroking.

You started the clash in pp14, and you lost the June 15 battle. China's objective of defending its territory is fulfilled, while india's objective of controlling pp14 failed. End of story.

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
If that's the case, why did China retreat from pp14? prior to 2020, neither side had any camps or infra near there, so by withdrawing, China restored status quo ante.

OH. So I you do admit Indian government could've lied? And made its soldiers follow its new interpretations?

Did China retreat from pp14? Which one? Y junction PP14 or the one that lies 1 km from Y junction?

As per the veteran retired Border Patrol Commander his LAC is shown in bright red line.

Ladakh Flash Point

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